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Old 06-17-2012, 12:04 AM   #16
Tinytags7
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Wow those maps look much better
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:10 AM   #17
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I'm also an apple developer and have been following this closely for years.

Unfortunately because I'm an apple developer that means I've signed a non disclosure agreement, and can't talk about anything except what Apple has made public. Xtremjeepn you're really putting your feet in the fire by posting those screenshots... seriously, this is pre-release software and you're not allowed to make that stuff public. If you want my advice... go in and delete them or you might face legal troubles.

Being pre-release software also means it's not really a good indication of what the final shipping product will be. They change stuff at the last minute all the time (actually, they almost always hold a few things back until launch day, as a publicity stunt).

I'm only going to talk about what's been made public, and quite a lot has been made public.

The 3D stuff mostly comes from a map research group called C3 technologies that apple purchased last year for about $300,000,000 dollars or more, they were a subsidiary of Saab and claimed to use fly small aiplanes at ~500m altitude and capture 3D terrain data with a resolution of 10cm. They also use helicopters and UAV's for even better resolution (in cities?). This is military-level mapping technology, C3's press releases talked about using it to calculate weapon firing ranges and deployment of soldiers and artillery in the field.

They don't just have 3D terrain data, they also have 3D buildings and trees.

The street map data, at least for the USA, is licensed off TomTom. No public info yet if TomTom will also be used around the rest of the world. I know that in australia TomTom has better data than google, so that's good news.

It will support full turn by turn navigation, with full voice guidance and speech control. In fact, it looks like the entire turn by turn system can be operated with *the screen turned off* so a bluetooth helmet setup with the phone in your pocket should give you full turn by turn navigation. Looks like the voice system is sophisticated, for example they have a public demo of asking the phone (with your voice) to find a petrol station along the current route.

Obviously apple already has voice control for things like music and phone calls, this should integrate tightly into all of that.

They didn't say anything about offline caching of the map data. I suspect it will require 3G access while in use, just like google maps, but I predict it will also download much faster than google's map data - since it's "vector" instead of "bitmap" - and will probably be much more reliable in situations where you have an unreliable data connection.

Perhaps third parties will be able to tie into it and offer full offline access, but I wouldn't count on it... we're most likely going to have to fall back to open street map/etc for offline data.

Finally, it has real time traffic data... in theory if there's a crash somewhere along your route it will only take your phone a few minutes to warn you and offer a faster route. They've got a screenshot with an alert message "Due to traffic, rerouting can save 6 minutes."

The traffic data is collected by iPhones, so as long as somebody else has recently used their iPhone along the route you're travelling down, apple will be able to calculate what the actual traffic speed is, instead of relying on speed limits. Presumably they can only collect this data from iPhones that have their GPS chipset powered on, so it remains to be seen how useful it will be outside of major metro areas... but it should be great for avoiding traffic jams on your daily commute.

Some features (eg: the 3D terrain view) will not work on all apple's hardware. You'll want an iPhone 4S or LTE to get the best experience.

All in all, Apple has been consistently improving their map/gps features every single year ever since the iPhone first came out.

Here's some screenshots from Apple's website:




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Old 06-17-2012, 04:21 AM   #18
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Ot cant belong before we can stop doing the garmin dance of just shit products, with shit service and dont give a fuck we are big attitude
What planet are you from? There's no better gps than the Montana right now, and no better gps company than Garmin to deal with.

Back to the topic, I can't wait to see iOS6 on my 4S, but not because I want to "whip Garmin into line".

Oh, one more thing, you don't need to quote the whole frigging original post, just to add a couple of comments.
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:54 AM   #19
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What planet are you from? There's no better gps than the Montana right now, and no better gps company than Garmin to deal with.
Just because there is nothing better doesn't make the Montana a good device.

I personally think it's a piece of shit. All around it's arguably the best (or at least among the best) available, but that is a really low bar.

I wish Garmin would release software for Android and iOS, allow me to install it on any hardware I want. And I wish they would sell hardware that runs their Android software along side other GPS apps. And most importantly, it needs to run non-GPS software as well (for example, my smartphone/gps has got a full KTM owner's manual, parts schematic, and workshop manual. Try that on your montana).

Perhaps stiff competition from Apple and others will push them in that direction.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by abhibeckert View Post
Just because there is nothing better doesn't make the Montana a good device.

I personally think it's a piece of shit. All around it's arguably the best (or at least among the best) available, but that is a really low bar.

Perhaps stiff competition from Apple and others will push them in that direction.
It's your prerogative to think what you want but have you actually used one? If so, for how long?

I have both a Montana and a 4S and each have strengths, but each is different. I keep my iPhone in my pocket and my Montana on the dash.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:40 AM   #21
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It's your prerogative to think what you want but have you actually used one? If so, for how long?
Nope, I haven't used one, and don't plan to. But I have spent plenty of time reading about them prior to coming to my decision.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:25 AM   #22
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Nope, I haven't used one, and don't plan to. But I have spent plenty of time reading about them prior to coming to my decision.
Interesting. I try things out myself before I form an opinion on them.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:21 AM   #23
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Fwiw, google earth has done topography for like ever. Here is the same thing on google earth:



I've heard that google is doing something similar for google maps soon. They have all the resources to do it, because they've already done it.

I think with hardware accelerated webgl, it may happen soon on the desktop. I wonder about the release of an android app. Hopefully soon so I can get my grubby fingers on it.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:36 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
It's your prerogative to think what you want but have you actually used one? If so, for how long?

I have both a Montana and a 4S and each have strengths, but each is different. I keep my iPhone in my pocket and my Montana on the dash.
Hey have you used the new apple map function ?

You sound like you only have 1 Garmin product?
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:38 AM   #25
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What planet are you from? There's no better gps than the Montana right now, and no better gps company than Garmin to deal with.

Back to the topic, I can't wait to see iOS6 on my 4S, but not because I want to "whip Garmin into line".

Oh, one more thing, you don't need to quote the whole frigging original post, just to add a couple of comments.
Missed your meds yesterday ?
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by abhibeckert View Post
Just because there is nothing better doesn't make the Montana a good device.

I personally think it's a piece of shit. All around it's arguably the best (or at least among the best) available, but that is a really low bar.

I wish Garmin would release software for Android and iOS, allow me to install it on any hardware I want. And I wish they would sell hardware that runs their Android software along side other GPS apps. And most importantly, it needs to run non-GPS software as well (for example, my smartphone/gps has got a full KTM owner's manual, parts schematic, and workshop manual. Try that on your montana).

Perhaps stiff competition from Apple and others will push them in that direction.

I agree 100%. There may be a best consumer GPS product, but there are no good consumer GPS products. They all suck. I bet if you compared a Garmin Montana BOM to an iPhone 4S or Droid, you'd probably see that you get a bunch more technology for your dollar for a mobile phone versus a dedicated GPS.

If it weren't for the huge cost of creating original map and POI data, there might actually be some new players and good hardware for consumers, but it's really a sellers market that I'm not putting any of my money into until I see a device that doesn't suck and is a decent value.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:49 AM   #27
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I agree 100%. There may be a best consumer GPS product, but there are no good consumer GPS products. They all suck. I bet if you compared a Garmin Montana BOM to an iPhone 4S or Droid, you'd probably see that you get a bunch more technology for your dollar for a mobile phone versus a dedicated GPS.

If it weren't for the huge cost of creating original map and POI data, there might actually be some new players and good hardware for consumers, but it's really a sellers market that I'm not putting any of my money into until I see a device that doesn't suck and is a decent value.

here here!!!

Having dealth with garmins back end :), their service sux. 30-45 minute waits on the phone are just not on

I have 4 garmin gps btw
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:40 AM   #28
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Whiners! You want it ALL and you want it all RIGHT NOW! Technology is bounding forward at a good clip and you're still not happy? Then get nothing and just wait it out, or get off your dead ass and become the next Steve Jobs and do something about it! Whiners ........ yeah, someday a smart phone will be part of a great gps, and have xm built in but don't hold your breath! We are still waiting some someone to get off their rump and make this happen! Geezzz .......
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:47 AM   #29
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Whiners! You want it ALL and you want it all RIGHT NOW! Technology is bounding forward at a good clip and you're still not happy? Then get nothing and just wait it out, or get off your dead ass and become the next Steve Jobs and do something about it! Whiners ........ yeah, someday a smart phone will be part of a great gps, and have xm built in but don't hold your breath! We are still waiting some someone to get off their rump and make this happen! Geezzz .......
Comprehension not your strong point is it?
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:51 AM   #30
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as long as you're happy, move along, nothing to see here .....
oh yeah, this has become another whining thread, excuse me, I'll be leaving instead, good day. unsubscribed.
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