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Old 06-14-2012, 07:39 PM   #76
byron555
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I've knocked a few helmets

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Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
I have ruined 4 helmets. 3 MC and one bicycle. All but one had extensive rash,and noticeable compression of the liner.

The one without liner compresion is actually the most disturbing. It had a pit in the top dead center and an oil can crack about 3 inches in diameter around it. I would have sworn there was no contact with anything.. The helmet did such a good job of protection I never even felt it.

Rod.
It's amazing, when I have crashed off-road, (and now on-road as of today) I have always checked my helmet for damage, and have always found some new form of damage... It's funny because I've never felt the helmet hit anything hard.... but I don't want to know what it feels like without

I am not ATGAT, but I do wear a helmet in the choice state of Wisconsin.... When I am going for a serious ride I do gear up... It does wonders for my confidence, I actually ride better and faster
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Old 06-15-2012, 02:35 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by ABritOnMaui View Post
The whole where do we draw the line thing is a damn hard question to answer. I'm no liberal but I do believe all kids should have quality healthcare and a good solid education irrespective of their parents means, I believe companies need some level of control but that capitalism is generally a decent way of doing things.

Legislating away rights is a tough subject, I think the line is drawn where it affects others. If Joe wants to own 100 acres in the middle of nowhere, make some moonshine, smoke pakalolo and generally chill. I am fine with that. I don't think we have a place to stop him. Assuming he isn't getting drunk and driving a truck full of his kids into a tree he isn't harming anyone. Now should he get steamed and decide to drive on a public road. Then it becomes affecting other people. Then I do care. I don't want him to have to kill my family before he gets punished. Why should people have to die before a clear and obvious danger is dealt with.

The decision we have to make is do we prohibit something that is dangerous before it causes an accident or hope the deterrent of punishment for any consequences works? The question then comes down to trading limiting rights vs requiring people to die before any action occurs. It is not a reach to say that drink driving is going to kill people. Why wait until people die? I believe that is the argument for legislating against certain things.

Allowing criminals and the insane access to firearms is not entirely sensible. Should we allow it? I think if somebody wants a gun and isn't mental or a criminal (I don't mean parking tickets, an actual felon) they should be allowed to have one. Waiting periods seem a sensible idea.

When laws go too far (and they sure as hell do sometimes) they do a disservice to their purpose. We cannot legislate a fitter society, we may be able to tax it half way there, but society has to change and has to want to change. We can legislate against big dangers

Do what you want on your own time in your own space. Endanger my family and yeah, I'm going to be mighty pissed. Rights (whilst essential and good things) have made people lazy and selfish. The best way to fight for your rights is to fight lazy stupid people. Less of them and a lot of laws can go away.
The insane belong in asylums and felons belong in jail, unless they are rehabilitated. If they are rehabilitated they should have their rights restored.

Isn't that part of that "forgiveness" bullshit the Christians are always going on about?

Getting one's firearm rights restored is not an automatic process and AFAIK does not apply to certain felonies.

Waiting periods are bullshit.

Why should the person fearing an abusive spouse have to wait to obtain a tool with which to defend herself? The NICS check is the same regardless.

I consider it my responsibility to provide for my own defense. The only way to stop a madman is with proper application of deadly force. When seconds count the police are only minutes away.

Schools (and other places that have laws that disarm the law-abiding public without providing adequate security) are victim zones. You want to disarm people in schools? Fine. Provide ACTUAL SECURITY.

Signs and laws are not security. Signs only advise the law abiding and laws punish after the fact. Protip: If the person is suicidal, there is no after the fact.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:37 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by AZbiker View Post
The insane belong in asylums and felons belong in jail, unless they are rehabilitated. If they are rehabilitated they should have their rights restored.

Isn't that part of that "forgiveness" bullshit the Christians are always going on about?

Getting one's firearm rights restored is not an automatic process and AFAIK does not apply to certain felonies.

Waiting periods are bullshit.

Why should the person fearing an abusive spouse have to wait to obtain a tool with which to defend herself? The NICS check is the same regardless.

I consider it my responsibility to provide for my own defense. The only way to stop a madman is with proper application of deadly force. When seconds count the police are only minutes away.

Schools (and other places that have laws that disarm the law-abiding public without providing adequate security) are victim zones. You want to disarm people in schools? Fine. Provide ACTUAL SECURITY.

Signs and laws are not security. Signs only advise the law abiding and laws punish after the fact. Protip: If the person is suicidal, there is no after the fact.
Some good points there (esp re the waiting times, thank you for enlightening me).

However, not every released felon is rehabilitated, nor is every nutjob locked up, it would be nice but I fear we would have nobody left to elect ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us...pagewanted=all

This is a state law, rather than a federal law, it is probably presented in a manner that suits the author, but the point remains, I would have assumed the gun lobby would be all for keeping people like this from getting guns. The vast majority of people are sensible, they can be trusted with firearms, why risk having that taken away from you or more draconian laws.

I am for you having a gun, you have your head screwed on right. Every time somebody goes postal in a situation like that it is just handing ammunition to the liberals to use against you. The people shouting the loudest for restricting access to firearms to certain types of person should be the gun lobby. We stop people with certain medical conditions from driving.

I am in no way saying you shouldn't have a gun, I understand and agree with why you want one. You should have one. It's the whackos and criminals who shouldn't. What did the last POTUS say, something about fooling him once fool on him, fool him twice fool on him ;)

Society is just a bunch of people who have temporarily agreed that shouting at each other is preferable to shooting each other. They grant you rights, these can go. Perhaps not without a fight or without reason, and they are extremely important, but frankly when I decide I need a firearm, I want the right to have one still to be there.

And thank you for a sane discussion :) You are welcome to take it to PM if others would prefer.
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We have the same trouble here. What I don't understand is If it's called tourist season, why can't I shoot them
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:19 AM   #79
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:12 PM   #80
AZbiker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABritOnMaui View Post
Some good points there (esp re the waiting times, thank you for enlightening me).

However, not every released felon is rehabilitated, nor is every nutjob locked up, it would be nice but I fear we would have nobody left to elect ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us...pagewanted=all

This is a state law, rather than a federal law, it is probably presented in a manner that suits the author, but the point remains, I would have assumed the gun lobby would be all for keeping people like this from getting guns. The vast majority of people are sensible, they can be trusted with firearms, why risk having that taken away from you or more draconian laws.

I am for you having a gun, you have your head screwed on right. Every time somebody goes postal in a situation like that it is just handing ammunition to the liberals to use against you. The people shouting the loudest for restricting access to firearms to certain types of person should be the gun lobby. We stop people with certain medical conditions from driving.

I am in no way saying you shouldn't have a gun, I understand and agree with why you want one. You should have one. It's the whackos and criminals who shouldn't. What did the last POTUS say, something about fooling him once fool on him, fool him twice fool on him ;)

Society is just a bunch of people who have temporarily agreed that shouting at each other is preferable to shooting each other. They grant you rights, these can go. Perhaps not without a fight or without reason, and they are extremely important, but frankly when I decide I need a firearm, I want the right to have one still to be there.

And thank you for a sane discussion :) You are welcome to take it to PM if others would prefer.
Your mention of the government "granting rights" shows me the we really have nothing to talk about. No thank you. My views are my own. No point in discussing politics. I don't go to JM anymore. I spend my money where it does the most good, AZCDL and GOA.

I read some of that article, every study that was quoted came from a rabidly statist group. From a paper with a rabidly statist perspective located in a state I will most likely never visit as an adult with laws that run counter to the second amendment of the Bill of Rights. I will not go to states like CA, NY, IL, HI, NJ, MA, MD, RI, CT to name a few. I try to avoid spending money in those states when I'm shopping online also.

And as far as going postal, if history is to be our guide the public has more to fear from post office employees than the employees do from us.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:22 PM   #81
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11 months ago today, just before the MT1k & WestFest. 95% fatality crash - alive because of ATTGAT and some good docs. Should be cleared (by the docs, not Mrs. Moment) to ride again by this time next year.

Never rode without it.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick2ny View Post
In New York state, you aren't allowed to ride with a full-face helmet unless the visor is completely shut. What do you think of that?

What's your BMI? IF you're overweight, can you provide one, single, valid reason for being overweight? What if they took away your right to buy soda, ice cream, fudge, and fries? There's no reason for those.
You folks keep talking about rights. Abortion is a right, riding a motorcycle on a public highway is a privilege. A privilege granted to those who ride within the boundaries of the law, safely and with common sense...at least as far as the United States is concerned. States with no helmet laws have a 65% higher fatality rate than those who do. If you want to commit suicide, fine. Just do it some place besides a public highway. Your straw man french fry argument simply does not apply here.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #83
AZbiker
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
You folks keep talking about rights. Abortion is a right, riding a motorcycle on a public highway is a privilege. A privilege granted to those who ride within the boundaries of the law, safely and with common sense...at least as far as the United States is concerned. States with no helmet laws have a 65% higher fatality rate than those who do. If you want to commit suicide, fine. Just do it some place besides a public highway. Your straw man french fry argument simply does not apply here.
Still doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for as much individual freedom to fail as we can get, even if it is a privilege.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:40 PM   #84
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Still doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for as much individual freedom to fail as we can get, even if it is a privilege.
Yes, that's exactly what it means. What you call "individual freedom", logical, rational people consider state-sanctioned suicide. This is really no different than forcing people to wear a seat belt. Why do you suppose there's no advocacy groups running around trying to appeal seat belt laws? Hmm, let's see what *that* sounds like...

"I refuse to wear a seat belt because I want to express my individual freedom."

Sounds pretty freakin stupid, doesn't it? And if you said it to someone, you'd be laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed as a complete and total moron.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #85
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ABATE is that the Sarah Palin crowd?
Im in Canada I dont understand these things.
We sometimes like to be willfully stupid in the name of "freedom" down here. It's not a bug, it's a feature of the culture.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:51 PM   #86
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I wasn't trying to change your opinion, just to understand it.
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We have the same trouble here. What I don't understand is If it's called tourist season, why can't I shoot them
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:27 AM   #87
AZbiker
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
Yes, that's exactly what it means. What you call "individual freedom", logical, rational people consider state-sanctioned suicide. This is really no different than forcing people to wear a seat belt. Why do you suppose there's no advocacy groups running around trying to appeal seat belt laws? Hmm, let's see what *that* sounds like...

"I refuse to wear a seat belt because I want to express my individual freedom."

Sounds pretty freakin stupid, doesn't it? And if you said it to someone, you'd be laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed as a complete and total moron.
And it's my life to ruin, so you can feel free to get your bleeding heart fucktard ass out of it.

If that's the individual's choice, I respect it. Too bad you're too busy fellating the State to realize it.

I bet you're from around Austin. Yep, you are. Sweet.
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:29 AM   #88
AZbiker
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Originally Posted by opium89 View Post
Yes, that's exactly what it means. What you call "individual freedom", logical, rational people consider state-sanctioned suicide. This is really no different than forcing people to wear a seat belt. Why do you suppose there's no advocacy groups running around trying to appeal seat belt laws? Hmm, let's see what *that* sounds like...

"I refuse to wear a seat belt because I want to express my individual freedom."

Sounds pretty freakin stupid, doesn't it? And if you said it to someone, you'd be laughed at, ridiculed and dismissed as a complete and total moron.
And FYI, I'm anti-helmet law, anti-seatbelt law, anti-drug law and anti-vice law.

If it's victimless, it's not a crime.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:14 AM   #89
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:06 AM   #90
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Another Rider died today

Another fatality on our demo route today on Rollercoaster road.

Bike went over the centerline and hit a pickup truck. We got there before the first responders but as we had a demo group and there were a bunch of riders already stopped we continued on.

Bike was off the left, 90 degrees to the road with the front end headed into the woods. Pickup truck off to the right, front end on a pole, drivers door all bashed in.

Another raked out custom. Like the previous wreck it comes down to rider error.

Yesterday was silly and today will likely get worse. Getting from the exit of the funspot to the turn onto Rollercoaster is an adventure and not the kind we like here.
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