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Old 09-15-2011, 05:23 PM   #1
liquiddan OP
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Wicked 87 Elite 150 Rear tire help

New Member here, hi all!

Just aquired a 87 Eite ch 150 that's been beat to hell but runs pretty good. I changed the carb/manifold boot, was cracked when I got it, but ran supprising still well. My biggest issue at the moment is the rear tire, it's basically bald and is almost completely flat every morning before work (hate turning on the compressor at 5:30am). So, I purchesed 2 Continental Zippy's and the exhaust gaskets, from what I have read I will need to replace the gaskets while changing the tire. Anyways, anyone with advice on the tire change, as I'm doing it myself.

Also, my main concern. Do I have to worry about removing anything on the drive side of the tire? Or just the side with the exhaust?

Step by step would be great!

Would be cool to have a 'How To', where we could get this kind of info.

Thanks!
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Old 09-21-2011, 05:33 PM   #2
btcn
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Your definitely heading in the correct direction! Wise choice replacing the intake manifold, these need to be replaced on any Elite 150 without a new one regardless of condition or milage.

As for the rear tire, the continentals are a good choice, I'm running them right now. They provide excellent handling, and work great in all weather, rain or shine and even decent on dirt roads if your careful. Only downside is they wear out QUICK, mine are somewhere between 2K-6K don't know but its not a lot and the rear tire is in the same condition as yours. Actually always leaked a little for some reason, get punctured somewhat easily but its time to replace then anyways. I let mine wear to nothin [I know its stupid] but I just can't afford much right now.

As for changing the rear tire, its VERY easy. I'll walk you step by step and I'll even tkae some pictures for you if you want.

I don't know if you got no service manuel, but if not heres a link to it:
http://www.hondaspree.net/other/Elit...nual_85-86.pdf

Heres the steps:

1. Take off the right side panel. Its pretty easy, just take off the black rear bumper by the 2 screws, then disconnect the wires to the turn signals, and remove the 2 screws on the panel and pull it off. You'll have to pop out the little rubber thing and pull it off nice and easy, the plastic breaks fairly easily. Service manuel explains it ok.

2. Take of the muffler. Yes you should replace the exhaust gasket, but these are only like $2 each. They are pretty crappy anyways and only last between 1K-5K miles depending on if you reuse them and if you install the muffler correctly. You can reuse them but they'll self destruct pretty quickly because the material will not reseal easily because there are little particles that take shape when you install a new one and will not redo this, so it will burn up and you'll be running a bit lean, some backfiring and it'll get louder and louder as well as your rear tire heating up [sign that you need to replace the muffler gasket]. You can order them cheap on Babbitts/HondaPartsHouse. To remove the muffler, first loosen the header pipe [remove the 2 little nuts and lockwashers]. Also to make a little more room you can remove the muffler head shield by removing the 2 screws holding in on in the middle of the muffler. I don't remember if its possible to remove before removing the muffler though. I broke a bolt in the middle so its stuck in there. I planned to remove it and fix it until my first ride without it. ALL that loud vibration is gone without it! This is the hardest parts of removing and installing the muffler [not the heat shield of course the nuts], I STRONGLY recommend you get a set of ratcheting wrenches if you don't already have a set: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...=%7Bkeyword%7D

Not just for this, you don't actually need them any wrench of proper size will do, but you'll LOVE them, if you already have them you know what I'm talking about. Once the header bolts are off, use a socket set and remove the 3 remaining muffler bolts. Also remove the little bolt that attaches to the metal bar that holds the rear wheel fender. A

3. Once the mufflers off, remove the right shock bolts. You don't have to remove the shock just the bottom bolt but IMO it makes it easier.

4. Remove the axle nut. Depending on who last serviced the scooter, you may need an impact wrench to remove it if someone overtightened it. It should come right off though if it was tightened. If its hard and you don't have an impact wrench, first try a lug nut remover and put weight/hold the tire. Its hard if its tight because when the axles spinning so is the tire.

5. Remove the small bearing in the swing arm assembly.

6. Remove black swing arm assembly. No bolts or nuts aren't holdin it now so just tug it and rock it back and forth. It pop right off or it may not budge no matter how much force you apply. If it won't budge, shove something strong between the wheel and where the axle goes through the swing arm. A large screwdriver may or may not work, but it should at least get it to budge. If its not coming, try shoving a wrench or anything in there and pulling like hell. It'll come eventually, this just happens when it hasn't been properly lubricated prior to installing the rear wheel.

7. Once you manage to get the swing arm removed, pull the other small bearing.

8. Finally just pull the rear wheel off and change the tire.

9. Put the rear wheel back on.

10. Put the bearing back on.

11. Lubricate the axle and bearings with Bearing Grease or Multipurpose Grease. This will help keep things smooth and avoid making that swing arm damn near impossible to get off.

12. Put the swing arm assembly back on.

13. Put the bearing in.

14. Put shock back on and tighten it.

15. Put the axle nut back on. Tighten it and adjust it just so that the rear wheel doesn't have friction, don't under do it or over do it though.

16. Put the muffler back on. HERE is where most fail to install it correctly and have their exhaust burn up in 1K miles. Now I recommend you have someone help you with this if you want to do it easily. First take out a new exhaust gasket and shove it up in there making sure the old one is out. If you want a really good fit put the gasket on the muffler header and shove it up in there. If possible, have someone hold the muffler while you tighten the header nuts FIRST. Be careful not to drop a lockwasher or nut, it'll usually go into the pouch on the muffler and make it hard to remove, you'll have to then remove the whole muffler again and shorten the life of the gasket. Tighten them fairly tight but not too tight yet.

17. Put the bolts in that hold the muffler. Now it may be hard to align them, you'll have to pull hard on the muffler in the direction of the bolt to get the bolts to align because of the header pipe nuts. But just give it a good tug it ain't gonna break so long as you didn't tighten the header bolts to tight.

18. Tighten them all fairly, and then tighten the header bolts about all the way. There will be lots of tension but this will ensure your gaskets last longer. Tighten the bolts all the way and then make sure your header nuts are nice and tight and that their lock washers are in [I've forgotten and lost the bolts on the road!], and then make sure the muffler bolts are nice and tight. Now don't over tighten them, just make sure their nice and secure.

19. Put the cover back on are your done!

I know this is long and maybe a bit boring, but I just tried to explain it best I could from experience. If you don't know how to remove the tire and install the new one let me know, I'll help you out there too. Its not easy if you haven't done it before or don't know what your doing.

Also feel COMPLETELY free to ask me ANY more questions you may have. Good luck!
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:42 AM   #3
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That's very true about the intake manifold/"insulator". I picked up an '85 deluxe 150 for CHEAP that wasn't running so great. All it needed was the carb boot which was cracked causing it to run lean I think.
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Entropic86 View Post
That's very true about the intake manifold/"insulator". I picked up an '85 deluxe 150 for CHEAP that wasn't running so great. All it needed was the carb boot which was cracked causing it to run lean I think.
Yes it is. Failure to replace it can result in exhaust valves blowing to total engine destruction. I've seen Helixes with engines beyond repair from this, completely sized with the piston in half and a big mess in the bottom end.

These weren't designed that great IMO. They work fine, but the rubber just dries out and starts to crack. It happens regardless of milage too. It could happen on an Elite 150 that has 10 miles on it sitting in the corner of a garage to one with 50,000 miles.

Yes what happens is it causes a very lean condition. This is hard on an engine, and causes it to run very hot inside and not run correctly.

The bad thing is you can't simply look at it all the time and tell if it needs to be replaced or not. Sometimes it'll have a huge spit down the middle and be obvious, while other times they'll have tiny hairline cracks barley visible to the human eye. It also can have leaking seals as well. One common method to test them is to spray WD 40 on the intake manifold and start the scooter, and watch for any kind of bubbling or anything like that. Now this isn't completely accurate though sometimes you won't get all the tiniest leaks.

The parts only $30 available through HondaPartsHouse/Babbitts Sport Center as TAG #5 PART #16220-KN7-305 INSULATOR, CARB for $29.79

Help spread the word here and on other forums and hopefully we can save some engines!
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:06 PM   #5
liquiddan OP
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Thank you very much for the info, I feel more confident about trying this myself now. I called my local Honda shop and they want 80$ an hour! I also called local scooter shop and they quoted $80 flat, which seemed a lot better. But from your instructions it doesn't seem that difficult.

I still have a lot to do, the plastics are all pretty beat up, lots of deep scuff marks and broken tabs. The left mirror is an aftermarket that flops around and is almost useless. Need to change the front tire, bought a pair, figure might as well do both since its been sitting six months.

Brakes aren't all that great, wondering if I should pick up brake shoes while I'm changing the tires, I have to push kind of hard before they really start to grab. Maybe check the front speedo connection as well since that does'nt work. Not sure how long but Odo reads 11,915 on it.

And for some strange reason it seems to pull to the left a bit. If you kind let your arms go loose while going straight it will start to lean to the left. I checked the forks but they look straight, kind of confused on that one.

Anyways, I really appreciate the help!! I'm going to give a shot after I get home from work today and let you know how it goes.

Thanks!
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Old 09-22-2011, 08:57 PM   #6
btcn
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Sure! Glad I could help you out!

Do you know how to change the tire though? If you don't and want to try it I can give you step by step for that as well. Generally if you don't have the tools its easiest just to take the tires and rims with the new tires to a shop and have them do it, they'll usually charge about $5 as they just have to slap em on a machine and hit a button.

As for brakes, I'm sorry to tell you that they ain't never gonna work very well! Drum brakes usually suck [not that there aren't any good ones out there], but the Elite 150 is an exception! I've twice put on brand new shoes, and made sure the hub had enough clearance, and rode it for a while and adjusted them perfectly, and they still just flat out suck. For most riding their just fine, but in those situations like when your going 55 MPH and the light suddenly turns red and you slam on the brakes your grabbing the brakes all the way just hoping they'll stop you! And if your a big guy or 2 up their useless! I'm only 200 pounds and when going 2 up I have to floor the brakes all the way to stop at any speed! Not a safe feeling at all! Even around town at 40 MPH sudden stops can be a bit nerve wrecking at times. On the bright side if your careful and take precautions you'll be just fine. Now the new brakes will help but don't expect near disk brake stopping power from em!

The pulling to the left could be your steering head bearing adjustment, see if your bars are completely 100% straight.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:17 PM   #7
liquiddan OP
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Those instructions were perfect, got the rear tire off and was able to get it off the rim as well. As for putting on the new tire, not so good. I think I struggled for about 45 minutes trying to get it around the rim with no luck. So I took it over to my local Honda shop and they did it for $19. I got home assembled it all back together and then noticed they put the tire on in the wrong direction. So I guess this weekend I will have to take it all apart and bring the tire back to them, what a pain in the ass.
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Old 09-25-2011, 11:16 AM   #8
btcn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquiddan View Post
Those instructions were perfect, got the rear tire off and was able to get it off the rim as well. As for putting on the new tire, not so good. I think I struggled for about 45 minutes trying to get it around the rim with no luck. So I took it over to my local Honda shop and they did it for $19. I got home assembled it all back together and then noticed they put the tire on in the wrong direction. So I guess this weekend I will have to take it all apart and bring the tire back to them, what a pain in the ass.

Yea I tried to make them as easy as possible, probably more detailed than you may need but others may view this thread and need the details.

Yea tires are always a pain to change. $19 is a bit steep for throwing it on a machine and hitting a button. Maybe a Automotive tire place will do it. Some say they won't take it to a bike shop but most good ones will do it, the machines are all the same I've had good auto tire places do mine before for $5. Bike shops tend to be expensive, but some more than others.

I've had a Yamaha Motorcycle shop do it for free before!

And yea just have them put it on in the right direction, they BETTER not charge you at all for it though!

And as far as balancing if you didn't already know usually on small scooter tires you don't need any balancing unless for some reason its way unbalanced, but more of the time its unnecessary. You can used Dyna Beads if you want an extra smooth ride as well.
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Old 01-12-2015, 02:29 PM   #9
Jim Moore
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Hi guys,

I'm bumping this old thread with a quick question. Does anyone have part numbers for the exhaust gasket (603887?), the exhaust stud, and the fancy exhaust nut? I changed the rear tire on my 1986 Elite 150 last weekend. Now I have a little exhaust leak. Also, one of the studs pulled out with the nut. I screwed it all back in, but I'd just as soon replace everything and get it right.

As a note, I looked on the bike bandit fiche, but I couldn't figure out the part numbers.

Thanks,
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:00 PM   #10
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>>I got home assembled it all back together and then noticed they put the tire on in the wrong direction<<

Yeah, that bites! And for that reason, whenever I have a tire mounted by a shop I check this before leaving.
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Jim Moore View Post
Hi guys,

I'm bumping this old thread with a quick question. Does anyone have part numbers for the exhaust gasket (603887?), the exhaust stud, and the fancy exhaust nut? I changed the rear tire on my 1986 Elite 150 last weekend. Now I have a little exhaust leak. Also, one of the studs pulled out with the nut. I screwed it all back in, but I'd just as soon replace everything and get it right.

As a note, I looked on the bike bandit fiche, but I couldn't figure out the part numbers.

Thanks,
I got my gaskets from Cheap Cycle Parts .com and I usually order a couple at a time.The last ones I ordered seemed cheaper than others as they crushed during install to the point that I had to double them up because the manifold would contact the head before it would seal completely and cause an exhaust leak.They were factory Honda parts so I wonder if they aren't now sourcing them from another manufacturer. Also ,though its too late ,its not a bad idea to replace the 30 yr old valve stems and clean any rust off the inner rim to prevent poor sealing of the tire.
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Old 01-12-2015, 03:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquiddan View Post
Those instructions were perfect, got the rear tire off and was able to get it off the rim as well. As for putting on the new tire, not so good. I think I struggled for about 45 minutes trying to get it around the rim with no luck. So I took it over to my local Honda shop and they did it for $19. I got home assembled it all back together and then noticed they put the tire on in the wrong direction. So I guess this weekend I will have to take it all apart and bring the tire back to them, what a pain in the ass.
I think you can take the wheel apart and turn the rim around. Hey you were lucky the muffler came off easy, I always spray the studs and nuts with penetrating oil a few months before I take mine off!
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:00 AM   #13
Jim Moore
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Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
I got my gaskets from Cheap Cycle Parts .com and I usually order a couple at a time.The last ones I ordered seemed cheaper than others as they crushed during install to the point that I had to double them up because the manifold would contact the head before it would seal completely and cause an exhaust leak.They were factory Honda parts so I wonder if they aren't now sourcing them from another manufacturer. Also ,though its too late ,its not a bad idea to replace the 30 yr old valve stems and clean any rust off the inner rim to prevent poor sealing of the tire.
Thanks. I'll order a couple.

I already replaced the valve stems. It actually had tubes in it. Tubeless now.

Can I trouble someone knowledgeable to look at the fiche and figure out the p/n for the stud and nut? I can't seem to find them.
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Old 01-13-2015, 08:48 PM   #14
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gasket 18291 kv8 680 stud 90033 kn7 671 nut 90301 kn7 670
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Old 01-14-2015, 03:15 AM   #15
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Got 'em. Thanks!
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