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Old 02-16-2013, 08:40 PM   #316
Blakebird
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunRider View Post
Would you mind getting her to explain what was more comfortable about the Guzzi over a GL1800??

I have a Valkyrie (GL1500C). If I can find a way to make the wife more comfy, I'll all ears.

More comfy for her means more bike rides for me!!!
Size and shape of the seat, 100%.

She liked the Wing's seat ok.... she used to nod off back there on long trips. But the shape of the NTX seat is a better fit for her.
Most bikes pillion seat slopes forward a bit (ST1300, FJR), this one is shaped perfectly so she can relax and not fight scooting forward all the time.
It's also roomy - she doesn't like having my helmet right in her face.

Before our long trip, I picked up an Airhawk for her to try, and we brought a sheepskin covered medical gel pad that I've had for years and never use.
She didn't need either.

I probably average 25k -30k miles a year, and she doesn't join me that often....a weekend overnighter here and there.
This two week vacation last August was just our good luck that our work schedules meshed and let us do it.....'cause I was taking that trip with or without her.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:47 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by RefJeff View Post
A point to consider, check the service prices for those bikes that will require body parts to be removed. FJR and Concours fall into that category. Tenere and Triumph will also.
The FJR maintenance intervals (valve lash) are so far apart that body removal isn't much of a factor. I checked the valves first at 30k miles and they were in spec. I put in iridium plugs at 12k miles, and propping up the tank was all that was required there.

The Guzzi is a very maintenance friendly machine, but body removal isn't a huge issue on the FJR or ST1300.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:16 AM   #318
leafman60 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakebird View Post
Size and shape of the seat, 100%.

She liked the Wing's seat ok.... she used to nod off back there on long trips. But the shape of the NTX seat is a better fit for her.
Most bikes pillion seat slopes forward a bit (ST1300, FJR), this one is shaped perfectly so she can relax and not fight scooting forward all the time.
It's also roomy - she doesn't like having my helmet right in her face.

Before our long trip, I picked up an Airhawk for her to try, and we brought a sheepskin covered medical gel pad that I've had for years and never use.
She didn't need either.

I probably average 25k -30k miles a year, and she doesn't join me that often....a weekend overnighter here and there.
This two week vacation last August was just our good luck that our work schedules meshed and let us do it.....'cause I was taking that trip with or without her.

I found the stock NTX seat to be okay but the Russell I replaced it with is spectacular. If you get one, allow some miles for it to "break-in."

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Old 02-18-2013, 01:57 PM   #319
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A question for you owners.

How hard is it to turn off the ABC/TCS on the 2012+ Stelvio? Does it stay off when you shut down and restart? I suspect not but that sure would be nice.

Is there any place I can download the Owner's Manual to read up on it?
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:49 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
A question for you owners.

How hard is it to turn off the ABC/TCS on the 2012+ Stelvio? Does it stay off when you shut down and restart? I suspect not but that sure would be nice.

Is there any place I can download the Owner's Manual to read up on it?
ABS couldn't be easier.....press and hold a button on the dash.

ATC is a bit of a hunt through the menu system, but it's not horrible. If I remember correctly, just go into the setup menu and it's right there, no need to go digging any deeper.

And no, they don't stay off when you turn the bike off and on again, sadly. If you want/need that, then you need to wait for the (now) 2014 KTM 1190 and the optional "Pro" dongle that allows you to permanently disable those features.

-SM
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:22 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
ABS couldn't be easier.....press and hold a button on the dash.

ATC is a bit of a hunt through the menu system, but it's not horrible. If I remember correctly, just go into the setup menu and it's right there, no need to go digging any deeper.

And no, they don't stay off when you turn the bike off and on again, sadly. If you want/need that, then you need to wait for the (now) 2014 KTM 1190 and the optional "Pro" dongle that allows you to permanently disable those features.

-SM
Ummm, I'm thinking the ATC stays off once you turn it off. But, the ABS resets and comes on after turning the bike off and on again.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:37 PM   #322
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Not trying to act like some big expert (that Im not) but, since I started this review thread a while back, I thought I'd include this cross-post from another forum is response to a gent who is selling his Stelvio in favor of a BMW.

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I have a few things to say about the topic of Stelvio v GS. Sorry for the length.

First of all, I am about as strong a proponent of the Guzzi brand in general and the Stelvio model in particular as anyone. I helped a long-time friend buy one of the first Stelvio models when they were first imported into the US and I purchased an NTX when they first arrived last year.

I posted a review that's still around someplace. I have 3 Moto Guzzi bikes.

On top of that, I am also, I guess you'd say, a BMW man. I have 4 of them now and one is a 1200GS. Ive owned 4 GS models and I do a lot of off-road running. I am saying these things not to brag about the bikes I have but to give some idea of my direct experience with both brands.

As far as the originator of this thread saying he is selling his NTX in favor of a BMW GS, I can understand it. I'm not saying I agree with it for me but I can accept that someone would do that.

I think I said in my Stelvo review that the BMW GS is a more-refined machine than the Guzzi. It is significantly smoother running, has better controls and switchgear, and a host of added features not offered by Guzzi.

I prefer the NTX, however. It is dramatically much better in off-road conditions than any of the GS models I've owned, most particularly the huge and top-heavy Adventure that I had.

On-road the Guzzi is a tad faster than the GS and sportier handling. The Stelvio feels lighter than the GS. I also like the visceral appeal of the Guzzi. I like a little engine feel in my machinery. ( I'm also a long-time Harley rider and continue to enjoy a Shovelhead I bought 35 years ago.)

I am also not fond of sissy-bikes with electronic controls for suspension and all those gadgets. Sorry for the "sissy" reference. Devil made me say that. It felt good too.

The Stelvio is louder, it shakes, it has too much heat from the left cylinder, it's a little more crude than the BMW but that's what I like.

I can easily see why someone with a different perspective would prefer the BMW and I would never ridicule them or try to convince them to like what I like. Good lord.

I even have friends with Gold Wings. I just … well, nevermind. Devil coming around again.

Now, problems.

I've had two problems with my Stelvio. I was stung by the much-publicized aux light short-out and popping the main fuse that caused me to be stranded. I knew about the problem and had worked on it but there was a misunderstanding of where the damn fuse was located. I know all that now. I also had one of my sparkplug caps go bad and cause a cylinder to misfire. These are not major issues and I hope my problems are worked-out from now on.

Now, the BMW. Those pictures posted earlier are inappropriate and do not reflect the problems associated with BMW’s.

Shown there are unusual incidents. I’m sure such catastrophic, isolated occurrences could be shown with any brand. We do not have to resort to that sort of stuff to make a point about BMW issues which are legion.

Most of the BMW problems that I can think of affect models from about year model 2000 and up. First and foremost is the final drive failure issue. But there is much, much more.

ABS pump failures, electronic security system failures that leave your bike stranded, fuel pump controller issues, brake reservoir issues, switchgear failures, ECU problems, CANBUS wiring complications and many, many more come to mind.

I hate to say it but BMW is the absolute, absolute most problem-prone motorcycle brand on the market. I hate to say it.

If anyone thinks these issues are minimal and isolated and simply blown out of proportion on the internet, they should regularly attend the national and regional BMW rallies as I do. Mix and mingle with The Faithful and you will see that all the issues I enumerated are much too widespread to be acceptable happenstance.

Not long ago, at a national BMW rally, BMW sent a PR man, Mr. Larry Kuykendall, to give a rare appearance. He held a seminar at 8 am one morning and it was packed. He went through the expected promo talk about how good BMW was and how they wanted to enforce a premium image etc.

When he opened up for some questions, I was first up and brought up the final drive failure issue and he responded that they knew nothing about such an issue.

I took the mic back and asked everyone of the 300-400 people there to raise their hands if they’d ever had a final drive failure. Seriously, about half the room raised their hands ! You could hear a loud rustle of all those Aerostich cordura sleeves rising in unison. Lol. No other questions were accepted and the session was quickly ended.

Anyway, these problems are real. I’ve had several of them plague me. I’ve been stranded more than once on a new BMW model. It may happen again too.

Let me try to clear up the final drive issue. There are two problems.

First and foremost is the main crown or hub bearing failure. As it fails, the metal bearing cage disintegrates and cuts the final drive oil seal to pieces causing the final drive oil to quickly blow out.

As bad as this sounds, in many cases, a new bearing and seal will fix the problem if caught soon enough. If you are in the middle of nowhere, however, this can ruin a nice trip. I always carry a pack of spare parts on my BMWs. It includes the final drive bearing and seal. I carry the tools and I know how to fix it.

By the way, Guzzi uses the same bearing in the CARC drive unless they’ve recently changed it. I remember when they introduced the CARC and I discovered this. I was very concerned but, aside from a few initial problems, Guzzi has not been experiencing final drive issues that I know about.

The second BMW final drive issue that gets confused with the bearing failure issue relates to the oil seal alone. BMW does not a have a vent on the final drive unit. As it heats up, significant pressure builds up inside. In some cases, this pressure causes oil to blow by the oil seal onto the ground.

BMW has addressed this problem by reducing the amount of oil recommended to fill the final drive. This increases the air cavity in the final drive and reduces the overall heat pressure inside that causes the blow-by leak.

These final drive issues became serious about year model 2000 with the 1100-1150 series. Then, the final drive was completely re-designed in 05 with introduction of the 1200 series and the “see-through” axle.

Originally, these final drives did not include a drain plug and were said to be permanently oil filled. Although BMW never acknowledged any final drive failure issue, they hinted that anything that went wrong would surely be the fault of improper service by the owners. Well, the final drive issues became worse with the 1200 series than with the prior series.

I’m not sure if they’ve worked the issues out now or not. Apparently, from all my contacts, the problems seem to possibly have been an assembly or engineering error that allowed improper shimming of the bearing.

Enough. There are many, many other things. I think the thing with the germans is that they like to cram all sorts of gadgets and technological designs onto their products. They like to answer a lot of questions that nobody is asking. They like to fix a lot of things that aren’t broken.

The more complicated things you add to a piece of machinery, the more things you have that can go wrong. That’s what scares me about the latest new water-cooled BMW bikes that feature many new designs and features.

Does all this mean that all BMW’s have problems ? No. I know people with over 100,000 miles on their bikes with no final drive or other problems. However, the likelihood of encountering some issue with a BMW is, I think, greater than with any other brand. There’s just more things there to give you problems.

I like the bikes. They have a wonderful suspension and the bikes perform very well. My R1200S is the finest sport bike I’ve ever ridden. My advice on having a BMW is this. Be sure to keep it in some sort of warranty coverage and then enjoy the bike.

So, back to the original post. I wish the original poster well. I understand his preference for the BMW. It is a very refined and polished machine. I hope he is in the group of many BMW riders who have no problems. I do advise keeping it in warranty and carrying a few critical spare parts on long trips just in case.

If BMW gets their quality control better, I may have another new one in the future.



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Old 02-18-2013, 09:07 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
Ummm, I'm thinking the ATC stays off once you turn it off. But, the ABS resets and comes on after turning the bike off and on again.
You're likely right on that.

I just checked my bike and to access the ATC setting, just turn the key to switch the brains on and scroll either left or right with the Mode button. ATC is right there at the top menu. Very smart. Set it to On or Off. Done.

-SM
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:54 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
ABS couldn't be easier.....press and hold a button on the dash.

ATC is a bit of a hunt through the menu system, but it's not horrible. If I remember correctly, just go into the setup menu and it's right there, no need to go digging any deeper.

And no, they don't stay off when you turn the bike off and on again, sadly. If you want/need that, then you need to wait for the (now) 2014 KTM 1190 and the optional "Pro" dongle that allows you to permanently disable those features.

-SM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leafman60 View Post
Ummm, I'm thinking the ATC stays off once you turn it off. But, the ABS resets and comes on after turning the bike off and on again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock Monkey View Post
You're likely right on that.

I just checked my bike and to access the ATC setting, just turn the key to switch the brains on and scroll either left or right with the Mode button. ATC is right there at the top menu. Very smart. Set it to On or Off. Done.

-SM
Thanks guys!!!

It sounds like it's very reasonable to deal with, a wahoo for easy navigation of menus with important stuff located on a top level! I didn't get the chance to muck with the menus on the demo bike but I could probably go back and play with it if need be.

The more I find out the better it gets.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:26 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
Thanks guys!!!
It sounds like it's very reasonable to deal with, a wahoo for easy navigation of menus with important stuff located on a top level! I didn't get the chance to muck with the menus on the demo bike but I could probably go back and play with it if need be.
The more I find out the better it gets.
The menus are easy to deal with. The ABS is a button on the handlebar on the NTX. Easy as pie.

I liked my bike so much that I bought another after a deer took out my first at 5k miles. Easy bike to love.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:51 PM   #326
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Where's the best place to read up on the service intervals for the Stelvio?

I'd really like to find a copy of the owner's manual in PDF, but I haven't found one on line.

I'm also looking for any detail changes between 2012 and 2013. I know they changed the paint on the plastic below the headlight, but what else?
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #327
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Stelvio

Wow, leafman couldn't have said it better. Both myself and my wife, who is a longtime BMW rider(35+ years) have sold our BMW's in favor of the Stelvio NTX. She got tired of her 09 leaving her stranded for the 3rd time. I got tired of fixing oil leaks and rear ends. I have had several GS's over the years and none can hold with the Stelvio in any way. It handles better, shifts better, brakes better and feels like a real motorcycle. Easy to turn off the ABS which I like as I live on a 5 mile sometimes nasty dirt road. BMW doesn't acknowledge any problems just continue making new problems.
Moto Guzzi service, simple and easy. Change some fluids, adjust valves and ride. That simple.
I do not say these things lightly, I am a BMW Master Tech.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:10 PM   #328
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When accessing the dash menus with the button, think slooooooow. It doesn't like jabby people.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:26 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
Where's the best place to read up on the service intervals for the Stelvio?

I'd really like to find a copy of the owner's manual in PDF, but I haven't found one on line.

I'm also looking for any detail changes between 2012 and 2013. I know they changed the paint on the plastic below the headlight, but what else?
I went looking cause obviously I am curious.
Googled 2013 Moto Guzzi Stelvio NTX and found this familiar review.
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motor...vio1200NTX.htm
When I Googled 2012 I got a very similiar review without the additional ECU talk. The refer to the tweaking of the 2013 model but the proof will be in the pudding. As we all know Piaggio is just a bunch of Pirates, thieves and liars....(Is that too extreme? OK. Scratch that.)
As it's hard to find out at this point what the diff is I would like to offer a suggestion.
I have recently spent a good deal of time with Todd Egan and he is as curious as I am. I was told by Steve at Tuscon Guzzi that the 2013s do not have roller tappets. Todd thinks they do but can't swear by it. Todd is also able to read (and fix) ECUs. So if there is anyone in the Malibu area who is the proud owner of a new 2013 NTX I suggest you contact Todd at GuzziTech and get yerself treated to a free exam. He would like to see the difference.
Warning: Getting to Todd's may cause injury or death.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:08 PM   #330
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Thanks Toadride.

I read the review in the link plus the others I've found. It's hard to dissect what's new for 2013 vs what was new in 2012 from 2009 and before.

I sure like the front paintwork better on the 2012, but that can be fixed pretty easy and cheaply.

If the sophistication of the ECU got better that's most likely a good thing. The only reason cars run so good these days on EPA approved settings is uber sophistication of the engine management systems.

All I see regarding the valve train is "decreased valve control noise level", no mention of specifics.

I see reference to a new stiffer shock spring, probably a good thing based on Larryboy's comments. They also mention a new set of progressive fork springs on the Guzzi website.

I see new windshield design but I'm having a bit of a time picking up the difference based on the pix on here.

I tried to log onto GuzziTech and got severe malware warnings from Google. Have you all found the same?

I did find a shop manual online, major help in understanding the service work and a few design details.
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