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Old 07-08-2012, 01:44 PM   #121
trrt
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Roadscum View Post
Sorry but I don`t know. I don`t speak German, the the reps english was a bit weak I didn`t want to be a PITA as ther were many folks waiting to speak with him.

Regards, Paul
It sounds like all it controls is the damping setting on the rear shock ... but that's just a guess....
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #123
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It sounds like all it controls is the damping setting on the rear shock ... but that's just a guess....
That's the impression I got reading all the technical data on it.

Which just makes it more expensive to replace because it'll be tied to the CANBUS for no good reason other than it over complicates everything.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #124
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I'd rather keep the weight down and have a true 650cc on a lighter bike that I find more fun in the corners or on bad roads.
When will a manufacturer (any mfg) figure this out?
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Sounds dangerous.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #125
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When will a manufacturer (any mfg) figure this out?
G650GS or Sertao
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:23 PM   #126
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G650GS or Sertao
But wouldn't the "keep the weight down" requirement eliminate these?
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:39 PM   #127
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I was speaking of a twin cylinder motorcycle.

Those are heavy single cylinder bikes. I would not buy a bmw thumper.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:50 PM   #128
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In all seriousness...

While out riding on the ZX6 I found that short shifting and using lots of throttle at low revs showed it to be quite the little torque machine.

Considering it isn't tuned for this, I was surprised at just how rideable it is way off it's intended rev range.

The bike is far lighter than a GS.

So I'm wondering why it is that we can't have a decent light weight small multi cylinder Adv bike?

There are many parallel twins out thee that would make a good platform for it.

So how come no one can get it together?



A torquey parallel twin or multi that weighs less than 190kg wet, has a low seat height and a minimum of 9inches of QUALITY fully adjustable suspension, with at least 20 litre capacity and EFI....and NO CANBUS

It can't be THAT hard can it?
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:15 PM   #129
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I would buy that bike tomorrow, Snowy. The Versys is close - a bit heavier than your spec and a bit short on suspension, but closer than the F700GS. The problem I see with the 700 is that it is going in the wrong direction away from our shared ideal. Heavier, with more power to make up for it, and more complex making it harder and, sadly, probably more necessary to fix. Drop to a 600cc engine, ditch the extra front disc, ditch the extra electronics. Make something simple, reliable, good range, fun on the street where it will spend most of its time, and with enough suspension travel to enjoy off road. Lightweight is key several of those criteria.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #130
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But wouldn't the "keep the weight down" requirement eliminate these?
how light is light?

I chose the F800GS over the r1200GS because of the substantial weight difference, I'm average height at 5'9 and light by american standards at 180lbs all suited up(helmet, enduro boots, Rallye 3 suit)

In all honesty I would like a little bit lighter bike but the power and suspension I get out of the F800GS suits my riding style and where I ride quite well. I'm considering buying a second bike for a cabin we are buying in VT and have pretty much narrowed it down to the G650GS and will farkle it out to suit my needs as I go. I've demoed all of the bikes mentioned and that's how I've reached that conclusion. The G650Gs does feel quite lighter and nimbler then the F800GS andI felt the power was adequate for that bike and solo riding. Funny thing is if you read a few pages back the reincarnated F650GS single came back as the G650GS because of World demand for it after the intro of the F800/650GS twins appeared. do the number designations make sense? HELL NO!

but reality is BMW owns the adventure bike market and we are just a bunch of guys with way too much time on our sides(who coincidentally own BMW's) giving opinions on how a "stupid company" should do things
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:17 PM   #131
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how light is light?

I chose the F800GS over the r1200GS because of the substantial weight difference, I'm average height at 5'9 and light by american standards at 180lbs all suited up(helmet, enduro boots, Rallye 3 suit)

In all honesty I would like a little bit lighter bike but the power and suspension I get out of the F800GS suits my riding style and where I ride quite well. I'm considering buying a second bike for a cabin we are buying in VT and have pretty much narrowed it down to the G650GS and will farkle it out to suit my needs as I go. I've demoed all of the bikes mentioned and that's how I've reached that conclusion. The G650Gs does feel quite lighter and nimbler then the F800GS andI felt the power was adequate for that bike and solo riding. Funny thing is if you read a few pages back the reincarnated F650GS single came back as the G650GS because of World demand for it after the intro of the F800/650GS twins appeared. do the number designations make sense? HELL NO!

but reality is BMW owns the adventure bike market and we are just a bunch of guys with way too much time on our sides(who coincidentally own BMW's) giving opinions on how a "stupid company" should do things
Yeah, it's a perplexing problem. BMW owners all seem to have some misgivings about the bikes.

For some, they are good all rounders that will never see dirt.

For some they are dirt tourers.

Some try to pass them off as dirt bikes aka Dakar bikes.

Most of us don't like the over complexity of CANBUS and associated faults.

Most don't like the weight.

A lot complain about the engineering, and the usual complex German fixes to simple problems.



Yet despite all of us having some sort of issue, minor or otherwise, with BMWs...we still own one.


Which doesn't mean for a second that they are any good. Just that their advertising works.


If the Japs went back to the old style "African Twin" in it's original concept, and used modern methodology, I'd buy one in a second.

But they too turn out street bikes with dual sport aspirations and pretensions.

It keeps coming back to building your own. In this day and age that's getting increasingly difficult thanks to emissions rules and the enforcement of "design rules" at local levels.

I may as well concede defeat and buy the K1600.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:01 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Snowy View Post
Yeah, it's a perplexing problem. BMW owners all seem to have some misgivings about the bikes.

For some, they are good all rounders that will never see dirt.

For some they are dirt tourers.

Some try to pass them off as dirt bikes aka Dakar bikes.

Most of us don't like the over complexity of CANBUS and associated faults.

Most don't like the weight.

A lot complain about the engineering, and the usual complex German fixes to simple problems.



Yet despite all of us having some sort of issue, minor or otherwise, with BMWs...we still own one.


Which doesn't mean for a second that they are any good. Just that their advertising works.


If the Japs went back to the old style "African Twin" in it's original concept, and used modern methodology, I'd buy one in a second.

But they too turn out street bikes with dual sport aspirations and pretensions.

It keeps coming back to building your own. In this day and age that's getting increasingly difficult thanks to emissions rules and the enforcement of "design rules" at local levels.

I may as well concede defeat and buy the K1600.
LOL, when I go to my local dealer they comment that I am one of a very small few that bought one of these bikes to ride it off road at all. The transformation of the F700GS is most likely to acomodate the needs of most consumers. I guarantee you that close to half of the R1200GS that leave the show room do so with lowered suspension and 9 out of 10 will never see dirt(at least in my area). It is all about the look and "sense" of adventure rather then actual adventure. It is also likely a "label" issue where the prestige of owning a "beemer" plays into it
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:41 AM   #133
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LOL, when I go to my local dealer they comment that I am one of a very small few that bought one of these bikes to ride it off road at all. The transformation of the F700GS is most likely to acomodate the needs of most consumers. I guarantee you that close to half of the R1200GS that leave the show room do so with lowered suspension and 9 out of 10 will never see dirt(at least in my area). It is all about the look and "sense" of adventure rather then actual adventure. It is also likely a "label" issue where the prestige of owning a "beemer" plays into it
Absolutely. I know this to be factual as I know night follows day.

Just don't say it too loud around here.


The one simple thing BMW could do is spec better off road wheel sizes and proper suspension as options at purchase.

How hard could it possibly be to have 2 or 3 "factory" fixes available as options? It's not like you're giving the shit away.

One bike, with engine outputs adjustable over several maps, and 3 suspension set ups.

Job done.

Oh, and I'm available for consultations on other models if BMW need me.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:02 AM   #134
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Absolutely. I know this to be factual as I know night follows day.

Just don't say it too loud around here.


The one simple thing BMW could do is spec better off road wheel sizes and proper suspension as options at purchase.

How hard could it possibly be to have 2 or 3 "factory" fixes available as options? It's not like you're giving the shit away.

One bike, with engine outputs adjustable over several maps, and 3 suspension set ups.

Job done.

Oh, and I'm available for consultations on other models if BMW need me.
Oh, absolutely! funny thing is they have M-series cars, why not a similar program for bikes?

most likely volume, they did add the ESA for 2013 but that is not a real solution. Adjustable fork cartridges and a truly adjustable shock would be the ticket, but keep in mind the cost would most likely be $$$$
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:32 AM   #135
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Which doesn't mean for a second that they are any good. Just that their advertising works.
I've wanted a GS for a long time. Was looking for a new bike and was all set on a GS and did my research. Decided I didn't want one based on the practical issues at hand. Got something else which I am happy with, but I drop by my local BMW dealer occasionally for accessories as they are the only ADV oriented shop in town. They often have a GS marketing video playing and I find myself halfway to buying a new bike before I remember all the reasons why I didn't buy a GS this time around.

Hats off to the BMW marketing dept. There is no question they are the best in the business...

I keep my eye on this forum to see what each new model year brings.
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