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Old 09-28-2012, 07:10 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by Carlos M View Post
There are two pilots who are used to win in a "full factory effort" configuration. They were not available.

From all the rest, Honda picked up the most consistent rider and made a few clever options regarding the rest of their team. I think Helder had the best [classification/$ invested] ratio of everyone competing. Now that all the logistics are in "full factory effort" mode for him also, we'll see what is his real potential. I think/hope he can prove as good as the aliens, but thats just the faith of a true fan.

In reality, HRC will need time to have a "full factory effort" comparable to the orange organization and Helder Rodrigues will need time to learn the specifics of racing in this new mode. So 2013 may be too soon.

Anyway, it's going to be great. We already had a lot of fun watching the usual aliens/underdog confrontation. Orange vs Red is going to make it better!


Honda have been "courting" Sam since just after Oz last year - his second ever Rally, where he came back to win 2 stages after an altercation with a Roo on day 1 where he may have come second best

His first ever rally was the Desert Challenge earlier last year, where on a stock 450 r he took 2 stage wins, one by around half an hour over Coma

A bit of bad luck so far with the mechanical in last years Dakar, but certainly the one to watch, HRC wouldn't contract him if they wern't confident in his abilities


And of course with Felipe and Javier they are sure of the South American support (not to mention the maketing opportunities) so pretty shrewd team selection, with 1 to come.

too old screwed with this post 09-28-2012 at 06:47 PM
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:11 AM   #377
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What I meant before is: When is Honda going to be as proficient as a factory team as KTM, and when/if their riders profit from that kind of organization?

Following pictures are from last year's Dakar, IIRC from the "fake" Marathon stage, when some teams found that they could service their bikes at the liaison stage. (Inmate Pilbara fantastic smug gallery):

Monsieur Despres being brushed up to look factory again






Pilots/machinery... the rest of the team will be as important - coordination, strategy, logistics - it all requires much more than a factory name and a lot of money - it requires experience. I hope they'll got this right from the start!
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:13 AM   #378
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[QUOTE=Carlos M;19699069]What I meant before is: When is Honda going to be as proficient as a factory team as KTM, and when/if their riders profit from that kind of organization?


It's like bloody F1
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:14 AM   #379
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How in the H@%# do you find these things out Neil ??
To quote Troy carpente safari: You too, have much to learn about the powers of the dark side of the F5orce, my young apprentice...


I know Darryl really well, and one picks the other stuff up when you pay attention to the little things.

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If memory serves, it was on the Dakar coverage of last years rest day, right Neil? Despres briefly showed the bike to the cameras and explained a few details of his setup.
100% Correct
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:18 AM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos M View Post
What I meant before is: When is Honda going to be as proficient as a factory team as KTM, and when/if their riders profit from that kind of organization?

Following pictures are from last year's Dakar, IIRC from the "fake" Marathon stage, when some teams found that they could service their bikes at the liaison stage. (Inmate Pilbara fantastic smug gallery):

Pilots/machinery... the rest of the team will be as important - coordination, strategy, logistics - it all requires much more than a factory name and a lot of money - it requires experience. I hope they'll got this right from the start!
They're getting soft, I tell you.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:37 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Bluebull2007 View Post
They're getting soft, I tell you.
Well, there's one young Honda rider who will pick it up and carry it if he has too, but not for the 250km he was faced with last year

Anyhow, there will be enough Japanese around to do that for him, but not too sure how they will survive the bivouac for 2 weeks
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:38 AM   #382
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They're getting soft, I tell you.
Too pampered.

I don't think anyone is under any allusion as to the uphill battle that HRC has in front of them but I think the big difference with this effort is that this is a true factory effort as opposed to a factory backed effort a la Yamaha France or BMW/Husqvarna via Speedbrain. Not that these aren't competent outfits, it's just that a direct factory effort makes things a bit more visible internally within the corporate structure and may add some sense of responsibility to up the game where that factory responsibility to the satellite team may not contain the same 'ass on the line' approach.

That said, HRC has its work cut out for them but strategically, they are coming in at the right time. Coma has a two year extension with KTM, Despres unknown but it is expected that after this or next year, one or both will migrate to 4 wheels like so many others before them. A win for HRC in 2013 or even 2014 would be a stunner so the pressure is off them a little as the gel the team and push for the top as KTM looks for alien replacements. As long as HRC has made a long term commitment, Helder is in the best position to dominate for some time. Felipe was a display of quick consistency for 2012, Javier and Sam have the speed and I'm sure HRC will deliver a good measure of reliability to allow them to showcase their potential.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:19 AM   #383
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As long as HRC has made a long term commitment, Helder is in the best position to dominate for some time. Felipe was a display of quick consistency for 2012, Javier and Sam have the speed and I'm sure HRC will deliver a good measure of reliability to allow them to showcase their potential.[/QUOTE]



So in a couple of year's who is going to be orange and not red
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:34 AM   #384
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[QUOTE=doyle;19700613] as KTM looks for alien replacements. [QUOTE]


For some reason, I picture a underground lab in the mountain, where their growing them in test tubes.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #385
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So in a couple of year's who is going to be orange and not red
It's hard to say but I think KTM themselves see that writing on the wall which is why we saw Felipe Zanol and Johnny Aubert in 2012 as 2nd tier factory riders.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:19 PM   #386
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It's hard to say but I think KTM themselves see that writing on the wall which is why we saw Felipe Zanol and Johnny Aubert in 2012 as 2nd tier factory riders.
So, some fortunate from MX or Enduro (or rally) will be selected and groomed in the near future - interesting options, but nowadays it's not just a great rider and navigator, he has to be a true athlete also

Oh and there is of course the little something of $$$
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:39 PM   #387
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As far as replacing the aliens, I think people overlooking Juan Pedrero & Ruben Faria do so at their own peril...

IIRC, Cyril started out in a similar position a decade ago... ?

edit: or just make young Barreda an offer he can't refuse... or Villadoms... or Botturi... the options are endless, and
I can't think of a single rider who would turn down Mattighoffen
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:51 PM   #388
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As far as replacing the aliens, I think people overlooking Juan Pedrero & Ruben Faria do so at their own peril...

IIRC, Cyril started out in a similar position a decade ago... ?

edit: or just make young Barreda an offer he can't refuse... or Villadoms... or Botturi... the options are endless, and
I can't think of a single rider who would turn down Mattighoffen
Of the bunch, I wonder if Faria or Pedrero have it. Inconsistency comes to mind. Barreda has shown real speed and has mounted true challenges to the front runners. Viladoms was a factory KTM rider already. One thinks they would have held on to him if he showed true alien potential though.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:57 PM   #389
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I think jordi left when he realised he was not full factory compared to Marc & Cyril.
Plus the BF paycheck must have been substantial, so why stay on the "satellite" outfit?

His results this year were pretty darn good for a spec 450rr and a newcomer team. I have faith,
especially after Sardinia

The catch though has got to be young barreda... So much potential

Botturi for some reason reminds me of meoni... A gentle giant, and amazing rookie result
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:41 PM   #390
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I think jordi left when he realised he was not full factory compared to Marc & Cyril.
Plus the BF paycheck must have been substantial, so why stay on the "satellite" outfit?

His results this year were pretty darn good for a spec 450rr and a newcomer team. I have faith,
especially after Sardinia

The catch though has got to be young barreda... So much potential

Botturi for some reason reminds me of meoni... A gentle giant, and amazing rookie result
Agreed on all points.
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