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Old 07-04-2012, 04:29 AM   #46
dashmoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssason View Post
You ´d better not wear any orange close or after "Mudgate" and "Rivergate" in 2012, the dakar 2013 might start right now with "spygate" month before the dakar starts
Surely the problem here is "tenfoothighandtoppedwithbarbedwire-gate"?
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:49 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashmoto View Post
Surely the problem here is "tenfoothighandtoppedwithbarbedwire-gate"?
no need to get wraped into barbed wire

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/...L_IS_II_USM.do
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #48
troy safari carpente
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MXMum

^^ She ain't got nothing I tell you... nothin'!

Crickey... she usually has to check in here (at rallies) to find out where her boy is...

Hi ya' "Mummy"...

Can't you at least give us some hints about who (if any of us?) is warm...?!
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Quote:
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"It's like deja vu all over again."

Quote:
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"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."

troy safari carpente screwed with this post 07-04-2012 at 06:50 AM Reason: posts that go "poof" in the night...
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:36 AM   #49
troy safari carpente
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PR, japanese spam and big brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
Ill wear my Honda cap and see what I can come up with!!

Perhaps MXMUM knows something too?
I see MXMum pulled her post... perhaps the HRC firewalls closed her down?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy John
"There is a difference between constructive criticism and plain rudeness."


Quote:
Originally Posted by zenjen
"It's like deja vu all over again."

Quote:
Originally posted by PBee
"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
^^ She ain't got nothing I tell you... nothin'!

Crickey... she usually has to check in here (at rallies) to find out where her boy is...

Hi ya' "Mummy"...

Can't you at least give us some hints about who (if any of us?) is warm...?!
Hi all

Quite right !! I know nothin, kept in the dark like a mushroom

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Old 07-04-2012, 07:38 AM   #51
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I see MXMum pulled her post... perhaps the HRC firewalls closed her down?
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:48 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by tehdutchie View Post
Ill wear my Honda cap and see what I can come up with!!

Perhaps MXMUM knows something too?
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:52 AM   #53
troy safari carpente
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Originally Posted by mxmum View Post


Hi all

Quite right !! I know nothin, kept in the dark like a mushroom
Jeepers! That well connected huh...?! We'll have to see if we can get you an executive position here at f5 central then...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy John
"There is a difference between constructive criticism and plain rudeness."


Quote:
Originally Posted by zenjen
"It's like deja vu all over again."

Quote:
Originally posted by PBee
"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:01 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Jeepers! That well connected huh...?! We'll have to see if we can get you an executive position here at f5 central then...


I am loving all the speculation and am sure it will all become clear soon enough My job would be so boring without checking in on here occasionally to see what the latest topic of conversation is, thanks to you all for the input
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:09 AM   #55
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TSC - has any factory manufacturer or other entrant won Dakar on their debut outing???
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:59 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
I think both Marc and Cyril have extended their contracts with big O recently. I can't see them leaving the family that late in their careers.
This just in from KTM:

Quote:
MARC COMA SIGNS WITH KTM FOR 2013 -2014 SEASON

KTM is pleased to announce that five-times world champion Marc Coma of Spain has signed with the Austrian manufacturer for the 2013 -2014 rally seasons.

Coma, undoubtedly one of the finest riders in the history of the sport recently sealed his fifth World Cross Country Rally championship title in Sardinia, adding yet another trophy to his impressive collection. The three times Dakar Rally winner is to compete in the Dakar Rally and the events making up the World Championship in the coming two seasons.

The Spanish rider, known his talent for winning, his incomparable tactics and his admirable consistency has enjoyed a very successful year in 2012. He was a close second in the grueling 2012 Dakar Rally behind KTM teammate and rival Cyril Despres. He won the UAE Desert Challenge and the Qatar Sealine Rally, the two opening legs of the four-leg FIM World Cross Country Rally Championship and took a cool third in the Sardinia Rally to seal the title with one race still in hand. Coma had previously won the title in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2010.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #57
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Question Victory on debut...?

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Originally Posted by Pete640 View Post
TSC - has any factory manufacturer or other entrant won Dakar on their debut outing???

Well, obviously - other than Cyril Neveu who won the very first Dakar rally in 1979 on an XT 500 Yamaha - no rider/manufacturer that I can recall has won a Dakar on their debut... no.

But I (think I ?) see where you are going with this line of reasoning; ie. could a newly formed factory team (like B/F or the HRC outfit) win a DAKAR at their first attempt, with a new bike?

It is an interesting point to consider, and their are a number of parallels one could draw to other past DAKAR factory team Moto victories that - by definition - were not strictly speaking "debut" entries by either the factory or riders concerned, but worthy of mention in this context - never the less. So indulge me if you will...

1981 Hubert Auriol won the Dakar on a HPN prepared BMW R/80 GS. Now I'm not sure if this was Auriols first attempt at the race, nor was HPN a novice at building big bore offroad competition bikes (having a heap of experience from the ISDT from a number of years prior). Auriol won again in 1983 on a similar bike, and this was the catalyst that led to Gaston Rahier taking back to back wins in 1984/85 for Marlboro BMW... Arguably the first big factory Moto team in the events history. Certaily it was the dayglo orange and white Playboy sponsored BMW that helped cement the image of Dakar in the motorcycling press... the image of these bikes is still recognisable in "Dakar" terms even today;



1986 to 1998 was the hey day of the big multi rider factory teams from Rothmans Honda, LUCKY STRIKE Cagiva and SONAUTO GauloiseYamaha / BYRD Chesterfield YAMAHA. They all had BIG budgets, testing programs and top pilots on their squads... All three manufacturers achieved multiple victories over this period, but none achieved what could be termed a "debut win" (neither rider or make).

BMW had been away from Dakar (at a factory level) in any great way shape or form for a number of years, but during 1998 the BMW brass decided they wanted to once again compete at Dakar and market the F650 single cylinder... as opposed to the boxer motor that had served them so many years. BMW enlisted the services of Richard Schalber to engineer and run a team of F 650 based machines at the 1999 Dakar, which they won with Richard Sainct on the bike... and repeated the feat again in 2000.



Though while strictly not a works factory team, it was a fully BMW funded and supported effort, that was put together in record time. The team and bike came to Dakar on debut in 1999 and (Sainct had competed before). They backed up the result in 2000... and then almost as quickly, disbanded... no more factory BMW at Dakar (for a number of years... until the Speedbrain/BMW thing eventuated almost a decade later).

KTM had competed on the Dakar from the early to mid 90's with modest efforts supporting (at first) soley Kinigadner and then others. Using various incarnations of the LC4 620/640/660 - by the turn of the millenium - KTM were a force to be reckoned. In 2002 they came to Dakar with their newly developed LC8 950 Rallye twin cylinder machine... and won at the bikes competition debut*, with Meoni backing up for his second straight victory.(* It is possible that the 950 had it's first tests/shakedown at either Tunisia or Atlas/Marocco in late 2001... I am not sure?). But the relatively short development time, and convincing success of the LC8 in it's short (barely 18 month) competition rally career, make this a noteworthy mention in the context of Pete640's question. As a a result of this success... the LC8 and various model offspring went on to enjoy showroom sales success the world over - which continues even 10 years later.



Since that time no other factory team has put a dent in the KTM stranglehold of the DAKAR trophy cabinet.

Though there have been some notable efforts... Yamaha returned to the DAKAR in 2004 with a David and Goliath effort teaming David Fretigné on a sole Yamaha France supported WR 450F against an armada of factory KTM 660 Rallye's. A far cry from the YME factory hey days of 1991 - 1998; back when Stephan Perfecthansel and the YZE 850 T (Super Ténéré) almost completely dominated the results sheets. Fretigné and Yamaha persevered with the formula of the lighter 450cc machine (they can boast to being the light that showed the way at least ), but even with the technical finess of the 2-trac drive system (later abandonned), the Yamaha/Fretigné effort failed to garner more than occassional fleeting stage victories against the orange clones between 2004 and 2010.

Aprilia came to the party in 2009/2010, hoping to upset the applecart with it's potent 450cc twin cylinder rally bike... and although some galant fights have been put up by Chaleco Lopez and the Giofil-ites, they have never toppled the Austrian orange merchants from their throne.

Also recently the BMW/Speedbrain/Husqvarna trinity has thrown it's cards onto the table... and shown formidable potential... but to date no major victory to speak of in Dakar.

So... to the crux of Pete640's question...? Can a newly formed factory team - the likes of the Bordone-Ferrari team, or the recently announced Honda HRC factory effort, take themselves to DAKAR 2013 and take on the the team that is on top of the heap (and has been for a decade) and grab a debut (of sorts) victory?

Well, it won't be an easy task at all... KTM have a lot of miles under their belt, a proven machine, a team with routine and experience... and the stand out two best rally riders for the last eight years on their bikes.... but it has been done before (kind of), so who knows...? I t could happen again?

January 2013 is not gonna lack anything in terms of rampant speculation and intrigue - once again it would seem...?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy John
"There is a difference between constructive criticism and plain rudeness."


Quote:
Originally Posted by zenjen
"It's like deja vu all over again."

Quote:
Originally posted by PBee
"...the Barstid never gives you anything for your Sig line, it's always too long........."

troy safari carpente screwed with this post 07-04-2012 at 02:03 PM Reason: a bit of grammar
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:44 PM   #58
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Excellent commentary and historical perspective (as per the usual).

Thanks Troy.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:11 PM   #59
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Excellent commentary and historical perspective (as per the usual).

Thanks Troy.
+ 1 Troy! Really good stuff. Most of us learned a lot.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:43 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos M View Post
Can anyone elaborate on the reasons for this Honda investment? Are they retreating from some other sport front? What are the direct benefits for Honda to be involved in Dakar?

Perhaps Honda was one of the companies that put in a complaint to the ASO about the dominance of the KTM 690's?

... so maybe it just was time to put their money where their mouth is?

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