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Old 11-08-2012, 03:42 AM   #181
Wraith Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Krumpet View Post
As a yoof I came around a corner hugging the inside to find an elderly couple had parked on the road to pick blackberries. Tense moment for me....
That shouldn't be a problem keeping the sight distance thingy in mind. :-P
At least the elderly couple is stationary, not approaching at speed like the corner cutter. In addition I find it much easier to brake and go wide than to brake and go tight mid corner.

To repeat it: Nothing against trail braking, it's fun and maybe it might give you a little more traction in some specific circumstances. Like hanging off. But if it's necessary to avoid a crash on public roads (because of corner cutting oncoming traffic or parked elderly couples etc.) one should consider to slow down a bit.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:58 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by bungie4 View Post
Well theirs some proof!

BTW I was in your home town in Sept.

Well you should have hit me up. There's days of great dual sporting right out my back door. I could have given you the 5 cent tour.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:13 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
That shouldn't be a problem keeping the sight distance thingy in mind. :-P
At least the elderly couple is stationary, not approaching at speed like the corner cutter. In addition I find it much easier to brake and go wide than to brake and go tight mid corner.
With Practice Trail braking can also be used to brake and tighten up the turn mid turn, one more technique in your tool box for when you need it as other options have run out, but like any skills you have to use it and practice it so that when it is needed it is there and is second nature. Trail braking is not just for the race track.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:22 AM   #184
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"A motorcycle is the most complex machine ever to have been devised to be controlled by just one person".

Fighter pilots might beg to differ.


This is the answer I usually get. A modern jet fighter is a paragon of simplicity in comparison to a motorbike, simply because the control inputs and responses of a fighter can be simulated whereas those of a motorbike cannot (yet). The performance envelope of a jet fighter is well understood and every aspect of it can be looked up in the relevant manual, but no such manuals exist for bikes.

The jet fighter pilot undergoes a rigorous selection programme and has training that costs around $20 million a pop and even then in a modern fighter there are lots of computers working out how to move the controls. A fighter pilot debriefs after every flight so that any off-normal situations can be fed back into the knowledge base and training system. Fighter pilots spend hours and hours in the simulator practicing and hours and hours reading manuals and books on tactics, aerodynamics and human factors.

We riders on the other hand take training worth a couple of hundred bucks, buy a bike we like and afford and out onto the road we go.

Is it any wonder then that we get such confusions over whether or not ABS systems work when we are banked over, or the change in available tyre grip with change in profile.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:51 AM   #185
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So you say... the fighter pilot gets training 10,000 times as expensive as the motorcycle rider, the electronics of a jet are double redundant super computers while the motorcycle electronics are more or less like simple redundant smartphones. Only less than a percent of all humans qualifies for operating a jet while literally everyone is allowed to operate a motorcycle.

And THAT is your reason to state the motorcycle is the more complex machine? Are you kidding me?
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:20 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
So you say... the fighter pilot gets training 10,000 times as expensive as the motorcycle rider, the electronics of a jet are double redundant super computers while the motorcycle electronics are more or less like simple redundant smartphones. Only less than a percent of all humans qualifies for operating a jet while literally everyone is allowed to operate a motorcycle.

And THAT is your reason to state the motorcycle is the more complex machine? Are you kidding me?
Wow... comparing the relative difficulty and complexity of bikes and fighter aircraft????? You won't win this one dude. FWIW I am with you.

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:21 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by B.Curvin View Post
I don't have a trail braking pic that proceeds the tuck on that same lap. Here is one from a different lap several yards before the spot where I took a nap.

I'm amazed that you're still on the brakes there. That's fucking nuts.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:28 AM   #188
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I'm amazed that you're still on the brakes there. That's fucking nuts.
He is slowly coming off the brakes, but is already on the throttle, hence Trail braking.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:57 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post
He is slowly coming off the brakes, but is already on the throttle, hence Trail braking.
What is truly funny is a good portion of the bike riding population think trail braking is JUST braking while cornering.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:06 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by bungie4 View Post
What is truly funny is a good portion of the bike riding population think trail braking is JUST braking while cornering.
I agree, but it is really using the brakes and throttle at the same time to help control the dynamics of the bike, pioneered by Freddy Spencer. As you decrease throttle you increase braking, and as you increase throttle you decrease braking, using both at the same time to help cancel out the opposing forces that each causes.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:16 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by outlaws justice View Post
He is slowly coming off the brakes, but is already on the throttle, hence Trail braking.

Just for clarity, I'm not on the throttle yet. I only mix front brake and throttle when I have a suspension issue to work around.

In this case, I could load the suspension hard enough, decreasing brake pressure while increasing lean, the cornering load kept my suspenders compressed.

I only wiped out once all year (in the preceding pics). I'll come clean on that. I forgot torque the rear axle when I changed tires before that race. The rear cocked sideways as I was entering the corner which started a front end slide I couldn't recover from. I was in 2nd and chasing down the leader on the last lap. I pushed a little harder that lap and BAM!
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:19 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by B.Curvin View Post
Just for clarity, I'm not on the throttle yet. I only mix front brake and throttle when I have a suspension issue to work around.

In this case, I could load the suspension hard enough, that as I eased off the brakes the cornering load kept my suspenders compressed.

I only wiped out once all year (in the preceding pics). I'll come clean on that. I forgot torque the rear axle when I changed tires before that race. The rear cocked sideways as I was entering the corner which started a front end slide I couldn't recover from. I was in 2nd and chasing down the leader on the last lap. I pushed a little harder that lap and BAM!
So you were braking, not trail braking.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #193
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I'm amazed that you're still on the brakes there. That's fucking nuts.



It really is good fun. Have you done track days or road raced? It really elevates your skills to level you never imagined. I'm still not fast in the big picture, but I'm a lot faster then I ever thought I would be.

At Barber I was turning 1:40s on a Supersport SV650 and won a couple of my races, and a WERA championship. This was my one and only year of racing. The AMA guys run closer to 1:24s, more than 15 seconds a lap faster.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:33 AM   #194
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It really is good fun. Have you done track days or road raced? It really elevates your skills to level you never imagined. I'm still not fast in the big picture, but I'm a lot faster then I ever thought I would be.
LOVE getting to a track, but being 6 hours to the closest ones makes it hard, been to a few track days and LOVE every minute and every lap, as much as I do getting on the CRF and doing a Good Enduro, always fun and a good way to practivce, keep your skills up and have fun
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:33 AM   #195
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So you were braking, not trail braking.
I disagree, and so does every other person that has set out a definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking

http://www.getfaster.com/Techtips/Physics23.html

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ho...trail_braking/

http://thebellypan.com/?p=252

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/rss/1...g/viewall.html
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