ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Road warriors
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-30-2012, 12:24 PM   #1
Royal Tiger OP
Pz VI B, Sd Kfz 182
 
Royal Tiger's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Oddometer: 1,380
Comparing my 2004 Ducati ST3 to my new (to me) 2005 BMW R1200ST

I recently sold my 2004 Ducati ST3 and traded my 2003 aprilia RSV 1000R on a 2005 BMW R1200ST. This is a run down of my impressions so far between the Duc and the BMW.

The Bikes:
2004 Ducati ST3
2005 BMW R1200ST

Fit & Finish:
I would call this close to a tie, with a slight edge going to the BMW. Both bikes are very well put together with no wide panel gaps or squeaks & rattles.

Comfort & Ergos:
This one goes to the BMW. The stock Ducati seat wasn't bad, but the BMW seat is a lot more comfortable, and I prefer the 2 piece design over the huge banana style Duc seat. The BMW has the High/Low riders seat and I have it in the High position. Very cool feature. The faux carbon fiber material on the BMW seat feels thicker and of a better material then the one on the Duc. I can't say if the BMW seat is the stock one as I bought it used and am still learning about it, but I would assume it is as the bike is just about completely stock. As far as riding position, the BMW is slightly more upright while still being sporty. The BMW places less weight on your wrists and has more leg room. I'm just under 6' 2" and am mostly arms and legs (34-35" inseam). I could flat foot my KLR650 and swing a leg over without mounting the pegs first. I definitely prefer riding the BMW so far. The wife has ridden on both and prefers the BMW hands down for comfort.

Luggage:
The BMW came with genuine BMW side bags and top case. I had to buy the brackets and side bags for the Ducati when I got. Absolutely NOT the Ducati's fault. The BMW bags are bigger and A LOT easier to use. You can close and secure them without locking them so if you want access, just push the button. Big time plus! Mounting and dismounting are easier on the BMW as well. The Ducati didn't have a top case so no direct comparison, but the one on the BMW is superb in every way. The guy I bought my ST3 from had another ST3 with the matching top case and it wasn't as nice as the one on the BMW.

Lighting:
The Ducati had great stock lighting. I found it easy to ride at night compared to some previous motorcycles I owned. I did have an issue with it's 2 headlight setup with one high and one low with no option to have both on. It always looked like one was burned out. I see just about every new Japanese bike has this layout now, and to me it's annoying. Everyone picks on the "tombstone" headlight on the R1200ST but DAMN this thing kicks ass for night time riding! Both lights illuminate on high, and even with stock bulbs it's BRIGHT! Both bikes had front turn signals integrated into the front fairings with amber bulbs under clear glass. For rear lights, both stock tail/brake lights are sufficiently bright and easy to see. The Ducati had amber rear turn signals on goofy stalks that looked out of place with the side bags removed. The BMW has clear rear turns with amber bulbs on mini stalks that are nicely styled into the rear of the bike that look fine with or without bags in place.

Performance/motor:
Ducati - 992cc L-Twin, 102hp @ 8750rpm, 68.6 lb-ft @ 7250rpm
BMW - 1170cc Boxer Twin, 110hp @ 7250rpm, 84.8lb-ft @ 6000rpm

Both bikes fall more on the sport side of the sport-touring compromise. Neither are sport bikes with bags, but they are nowhere near slow or underpowered. The Ducati felt a little more lively leaving a stop, but the tractor like torque of the BMW is intoxicating. You can forget to downshift and the BMW just pulls you through curves like a Kenworth. Both have been into the 120+ mph club with me and neither one had any problems getting, or staying, there. The BMW seems less affected by strong headwinds and both were about the same with strong cross winds. The BMW is being ridden like I stole it, and is getting excellent fuel economy. Probably around 55mpg-ish. The Ducati was always steady in the mid to high 40's. Overall in terms of power as an attribute, they are both amazing machines, but I prefer the BMW. The Ducati was EXTREMELY touchy in terms of RPM. Get it under 4k and it felt like an old dump truck bucking and heaving. The BMW has been down around 2k under load and not one ounce of "jitteriness". Both applied power in an almost electric like fashion, but the clear torque advantage of the BMW is very tough to overcome.

Transmission:
This one is a clear win for the Ducati. Both are 6 speeds with adequate spacing, including a high enough 6th gear to allow 90+mph slabbing to be drama free affairs, but the Ducati is in another league when it comes to smooth gear changes. The BMW is decidedly "clunky", which upon some research seems to be a BMW trademark. I have read A LOT of "they are all like that" comments on various forums. I don't doubt it's ruggedness though, as there are thousands of R1100/1150/1200 bikes with over 100k miles out there and no one seemed to have specific transmission issues. Not counting the spline issues that seem to have hit the 1150's the most.

Final Drive:
The Ducati is chain drive while the BMW is shaft. All I can say is thank heaven for shaft drive as I am SO tired of cleaning chains.

Weight:
Ducati - 447.5lbs "dry", 499.7lbs "wet"
BMW - 451.9lbs "dry", 504.9lbs "wet"

I found wildly different numbers in researching this. Both seem about the same to me, but I would say the Ducati was a tad lighter from having to push them both around the garage, although not back to back.

Features:
The Ducati was available with ABS latter on, but the one I had did not have it. My BMW has it and is my first ABS equipped bike. The BMW also has heated grips, adjustable windscreen and cruise control. Both bikes brake very well and although I have tried to get the ABS to kick on in ultra hard panic stops, I have felt no pulsing or vibrations in the lever or pedal.

Instrumentation:
The Ducati had a dial tachometer and a digital speedometer, a layout I prefer. The BMW uses dials for both. The Ducati had a digital engine temperature gauge, the BMW uses a digital bar graph. The Ducati had various functions to display on the screen, but always defaulted back to the odometer when restarted. Every time you got back on it was scrolling through menus using buttons on the dash. The BMW has a digital display as well and scrolling from Trip I to Trip II to the odometer is done via a button on the left handlebar. A lot easier and more comfortable to do, especially while moving. They both have a digital bar graph fuel gauge. The BMW actually has a "count down" feature when you reach 1/4 tank, where it takes your current average fuel economy and available fuel level and counts the miles down to empty. It was fascinating watching it go 48 miles, 47 miles, 46 miles, etc... Another really great idea. The BMW has a gear indicator which the Ducati did not. I like having one I have to admit. Both had digital clocks. The Ducati cluster was a tad better lit at night.

Overall Impression:
As of right now, I have to say I like the BMW better. The wife says it's no contest as a passenger. Service on the BMW seems to be a lot easier and probably less expensive as well. The shaft drive and single sided swingarm are beautiful to look at. The Ducati had the carbon fiber exhaust can without baffles so you knew it was coming! The BMW has a stock can and sounds like a sewing machine. That has to be fixed ASAP!!! The non-dive feature of the Telelever front suspension is wonderful. Not as good at communicating road surface "feel" as conventional forks, but you get used to it. I have to say I'm very happy with the decision.
__________________
2013 Yamaha XT250 * 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 * 2007 BMW G650X XChallenge * 2005 BMW R1200ST * 2003 Yamaha PW80
Royal Tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
JoeDuck
Kilroy was here
 
JoeDuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: North of Alcatraz
Oddometer: 822
Interesting write up. You may want to remove the hotlinks before the ST.net guys borrow/use SomethingAwful's old don't steal message
__________________
Pics of whatever/where ever http://joee.smugmug.com
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure.
JoeDuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 03:46 PM   #3
625SXC
Studly Adventurer
 
625SXC's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Oddometer: 541
Were those weights gotten from a source or did you actually weigh the bikes? I find it hard to believe either bikes are that light.
__________________
2007 FJR1300
2005 KTM 950 Adventure Black
2005 KTM 525MXC
2006 KTM 200 XC-W
2003 KTM 200SX/EXC hybrid
625SXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 04:17 PM   #4
Royal Tiger OP
Pz VI B, Sd Kfz 182
 
Royal Tiger's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Oddometer: 1,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by 625SXC View Post
Were those weights gotten from a source or did you actually weigh the bikes? I find it hard to believe either bikes are that light.

I looked around on-line for one site that had weights for both bikes. I figured that would be a more fair comparison if they weighed both bikes as opposed to 2 different sites. Every chart I saw seem to be in the ballpark. Here are two sites, one giving 451.9 dry and one saying 453 dry:


http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/bmw_r1200st_2007.php

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/21/Buy...W-R1200ST.aspx
__________________
2013 Yamaha XT250 * 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 * 2007 BMW G650X XChallenge * 2005 BMW R1200ST * 2003 Yamaha PW80
Royal Tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 04:23 PM   #5
625SXC
Studly Adventurer
 
625SXC's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tiger View Post
I looked around on-line for one site that had weights for both bikes. I figured that would be a more fair comparison if they weighed both bikes as opposed to 2 different sites. Every chart I saw seem to be in the ballpark. Here are two sites, one giving 451.9 dry and one saying 453 dry:


http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/bmw_r1200st_2007.php

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/21/Buy...W-R1200ST.aspx


OK. I weighed my Futura and it was 535 without the bags installed. Hard to believe the Beemer is 30lbs lighter than my bike.
__________________
2007 FJR1300
2005 KTM 950 Adventure Black
2005 KTM 525MXC
2006 KTM 200 XC-W
2003 KTM 200SX/EXC hybrid
625SXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 04:26 PM   #6
Royal Tiger OP
Pz VI B, Sd Kfz 182
 
Royal Tiger's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Oddometer: 1,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by 625SXC View Post
OK. I weighed my Futura and it was 535 without the bags installed. Hard to believe the Beemer is 30lbs lighter than my bike.
I had a RSV-R and wanted a Futura before I bought the ST3. The ST3 was definitely lighter then the Futura. Here is the Futura's page:

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/apr...utura_2003.php

About 10lbs heavier dry. The BMW is probably closer to 515lbs then 505. I'd like to weigh it in person to see.
__________________
2013 Yamaha XT250 * 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 * 2007 BMW G650X XChallenge * 2005 BMW R1200ST * 2003 Yamaha PW80
Royal Tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 06:11 PM   #7
PhilB
Beastly Adventurer
 
PhilB's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: New Hampshire
Oddometer: 1,325
Thanks. That's very interesting.

PhilB
__________________
1993 Ducati M900 Monster "Patina" (228,000 miles, so far) -- 1995 Ducati M900 (wife's bike) -- 1972 Honda CB450 (daughter's bike) -- 1979 Vespa P200 (daughter's scoot) -- 1967 Alfa Romeo GT Jr. (1300cc) -- 1964 Vespa GS160 (160cc 2-stroke) -- 1962 Maicoletta scooter (275cc 2-stroke) -- 1960 Heinkel Tourist 103A1 scooter "Elroy" (175cc 4-stroke)
PhilB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2012, 06:46 PM   #8
625SXC
Studly Adventurer
 
625SXC's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Oddometer: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Tiger View Post
I had a RSV-R and wanted a Futura before I bought the ST3. The ST3 was definitely lighter then the Futura. Here is the Futura's page:

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/apr...utura_2003.php

About 10lbs heavier dry. The BMW is probably closer to 515lbs then 505. I'd like to weigh it in person to see.


463lbs.... Mabey when it was 3/4 of the way down the assembly line... LOL
__________________
2007 FJR1300
2005 KTM 950 Adventure Black
2005 KTM 525MXC
2006 KTM 200 XC-W
2003 KTM 200SX/EXC hybrid
625SXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 08:03 AM   #9
ID650rider
MC enthusiast
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: North Idaho
Oddometer: 18
Nice write up - thanks for sharing your thoughts and welcome to the world of BMWs. The ST is a very under rated bike - you and your wife will enjoy it for many many miles
ID650rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 08:53 AM   #10
JimVonBaden
"Cool" Aid!
 
JimVonBaden's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Alexandria, VA
Oddometer: 48,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by ID650rider View Post
Nice write up - thanks for sharing your thoughts and welcome to the world of BMWs. The ST is a very under rated bike - you and your wife will enjoy it for many many miles


The write-up is well done. Post a few of your own photos of the bike.

The cruise control you mention is going to be an aftermarket throttle lock, likely a Wonderlich or a Throttlemeister.

Here is mine:


I have a top case as well. This is the Rick Mayer seat on it.



Stock seat.

Feel free to ask any questions you might have as I know the bike pretty well.

Jim
JimVonBaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 10:07 AM   #11
Rinty
Studly Adventurer
 
Rinty's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Oddometer: 535
Nice write up, Dan. It's good to see these bikes get some exposure.

My research on the bike's weights resulted in the same numbers you have: 450 dry and 505 wet. Remus headers and titanium can will knock off another 22 lbs and deliver glorious sound to boot, while still being nice and quiet at lower revs. Between the Remus system and my post winter holiday diet, my bike's down 30 lbs!

I just rode an ST2 back to back with my ST, and my impressions are much the same as yours.

Since you're also tall, you might try the Verholen peg lowering kit, which is good for a 40 mm drop. Resulting peg height is the same as an RT, which is no cornering slouch.

Now that the price of these bikes has dropped, one of the major criticisms of the model when it was introduced, is no longer relevant.

Rinty screwed with this post 10-01-2012 at 01:01 PM
Rinty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #12
Mr. Canoehead
Taste Gunnels!
 
Mr. Canoehead's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Too far to the mountains and too cold
Oddometer: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinty View Post
Now that the price of these bikes has dropped, one of the major criticisms of the model when it was introduced, is no longer relevant.
I don't think the failure in the market had anything to do with the price....It's all about the look of the fairing.

I know you don't see it when you are riding the bike but why couldn't they have just updated the R1150RS fairing? It worked well and looked good. They really "Bangled" that one.
__________________
___________________________________________
2006 FJR1300, 2005 GS1150 Adventure, 2002 DR650 SE, a fortune in Farkles.

"No matter how many [internet] opinions you line up, you can't vote nonsense into truth"- Kevin Cameron
Mr. Canoehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:02 AM   #13
Rinty
Studly Adventurer
 
Rinty's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Oddometer: 535
In the (mainly British) road tests at that time, there are a number of critique items that keep coming up: slow(er) turn in, looks, cost, vibration, numb(er) front road feel, comfort.

And the testers compared it to the Triumph Sprint ST, which is tough competition. And the Aprilia Futura was tough competition.

But yes, that would have been nice if they could have draped the RS fairing over the ST mechanicals, and re worked the lighting system. To me, the looks of an ST are kind of like a "series 2" Corvair, you love it or hate it.
Rinty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:17 AM   #14
Mr. Canoehead
Taste Gunnels!
 
Mr. Canoehead's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Calgary, Too far to the mountains and too cold
Oddometer: 1,366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinty View Post
But yes, that would have been nice if they could have draped the RS fairing over the ST mechanicals, and re worked the lighting system. To me, the looks of an ST are kind of like a "series 2" Corvair, you love it or hate it.
LOL - I always liked the Series 2 Corvair, maybe because of the cute girl in Engineering school who drove the Monza convertible
__________________
___________________________________________
2006 FJR1300, 2005 GS1150 Adventure, 2002 DR650 SE, a fortune in Farkles.

"No matter how many [internet] opinions you line up, you can't vote nonsense into truth"- Kevin Cameron
Mr. Canoehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 01:05 PM   #15
Rinty
Studly Adventurer
 
Rinty's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Oddometer: 535
You should have offered to balance her carbs.

I had an RS for a couple of years; best looking bike BMW ever built, IMO:



And it was so roomy.

Rinty screwed with this post 10-01-2012 at 01:56 PM
Rinty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014