rnickymouse failure Mulholland fest

[Griffin44]

Originally Posted by Tepi

S1000RR has to be one of the easiest big bikes out there, ok its got huge amounts of power, but it has EVERYTHING to help you NOT crash it, unless ofcourse you switch it to race mode. But it has ABS, traction control, wheelie control, the works.

It is still very easy to launch it into the weeds. Trust me it is not crash proof. It has ridiculous acceleration and can get you into a great deal of trouble very quickly and the electronics will not save you.

I do agree that it does take away (if properly set up) the probabilities of some bad things happening (like looping the bike through an unintended wheelie) and ABS is terrific, for a new rider to feel that the electronics on this bike is going to save them from dumb mistakes is bad. Very bad.

Originally Posted by LuciferMutt

Great. That will teach awesome riding skills. They can hop on, use terrible throttle control, terrible brake control and terrible clutch control, and the bike fixes everything for them! What could possibly go wrong?

It doesn't solve the biggest concern I have for new riders of going in to a corner too hot. The ABS may help but it won't save you.

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

With the ABS Brakes on the S1000RR he very likely would have been "OK"

The acceleration on this bike is not made "safe" by the electronics. It is easy to change line, such as moving to pass, grabbing a handful of throttle and lofting the front (wheelie control doesn't eliminate wheel lift) then finding you aren't pointed where you thought you were when the front comes back down. Then you get to see how your skills are. Not to mention how good your Depends are.

Anyone suggesting this bike to a new rider is doing them a diservice. Sure, they may well survive. But so do 8 year olds with handguns. Doesn't mean its a good idea.

[Barry]

Originally Posted by Griffin44

It is still very easy to launch it into the weeds. Trust me it is not crash proof. It has ridiculous acceleration and can get you into a great deal of trouble very quickly and the electronics will not save you.

I do agree that it does take away (if properly set up) the probabilities of some bad things happening (like looping the bike through an unintended wheelie) and ABS is terrific, for a new rider to feel that the electronics on this bike is going to save them from dumb mistakes is bad. Very bad.



It doesn't solve the biggest concern I have for new riders of going in to a corner too hot. The ABS may help but it won't save you.



The acceleration on this bike is not made "safe" by the electronics. It is easy to change line, such as moving to pass, grabbing a handful of throttle and lofting the front (wheelie control doesn't eliminate wheel lift) then finding you aren't pointed where you thought you were when the front comes back down. Then you get to see how your skills are. Not to mention how good your Depends are.

Anyone suggesting this bike to a new rider is doing them a diservice. Sure, they may well survive. But so do 8 year olds with handguns. Doesn't mean its a good idea.

TRUTH ^^^^^^^^^

Lot of people think some electronics make a bike idiot proof. Not the case, not even close.

Barry

[ttpete]

Originally Posted by trc.rhubarb

On that note, I met a guy the other day at the Ducati dealer.
He was coming off a CBR250 and test rode the Panigale.

I mentioned that it's a bike that im a bit scared to ride (because I know how fast all my bikes can go) but didn't get that far. He explained to me that he has learned that being smooth on the throttle is the most important thing. Apparently he was a newish rider but told me the Panigale seemed like a very safe bike.

While I don't doubt that it can protect the rider from some dumb mistakes, it can't protect the rider from being a dumbass or making newbie mistakes. I still want one, but I'll never own one. I don't have enough maturity to suject myself to that kind of risk.

It's no so much being scared as it is a matter of respecting what the bike can do to the rider and itself if it's improperly operated. I have great respect for my Ducati and what it's capable of.

That said, I'd never recommend a liter bike for a first one. For a beginner with a sport bike interest, something like a Ninja 650R would be a better choice. It's also a lot cheaper to repair after it's been dropped, something that will happen while learning.

[rbrsddn]

The bike won't respect you back. It will kick your ass.

[ttpete]

Originally Posted by rbrsddn

The bike won't respect you back. It will kick your ass.

I never ask it or expect it to. It's an inanimate thing. It only does what the rider tells it to. You respect the potential.

[rbrsddn]

Originally Posted by ttpete

I never ask it or expect it to. It's an inanimate thing. It only does what the rider tells it to. You respect the potential.

I agree, because I know how to ride. Some Greehorn kid won't know how to respect a liter bikes potential, and won't have the self control to not whack the throttle, and likely kill himself, or worse.

[eatpasta]

I think something that's being overlooked here is that sportbikes are very unforgiving by (their racing) nature.
You can make a reasonably big mistake on a dirtbike and depending on the situation you have a decent chance to save it. On a sportbike, a very small mistake become amplified VERY quickly and makes a small mistake into a huge one VERY quickly.

I had an SV1000 for a few years and every time I took it out, I was surprised at how much fun it was and how unforgiving it was..... and those are pretty tame on the scale of sportbikes.

[Aussijussi]

Despite the fact that it's not the best idea to put a beginner on a 1000rr, it will happend, just so they can tell their mate's, i've got a 1000rr. There has been few threads about the 'noob on a powerfull whatever', with opinion's ranging from, instant death, to a probably ok if they take it easy. I know when i was 18 or a bit, and had gotten my hand's on something like the 1000rr, the first time out, i would've said to myself, let's see what thing can do.....

[rbrsddn]

Look what can happen on the Mighty SV 650!

[phoenixdoglover]

Originally Posted by rbrsddn

Look what can happen on the Mighty SV 650!
>

Reminds me of the first and only time my older brother rode a motorcycle. My new Yamaha LT2, 100 cc of heart pounding excitement . He knew how to ride a bicycle. He knew how to operate a manual transmission car. What could go wrong? Crazy high revs, a popped clutch, and a wheelie back flip in the 1st 20 ft, that's what can go wrong.

[wiseblood]

Originally Posted by eatpasta

I think something that's being overlooked here is that sportbikes are very unforgiving by (their racing) nature.

It's amazing how much power sportsbikes have. Which reminds me, has anyone ever heard this story?

[LuciferMutt]

It's not just power. A focused sports bike is excellent at doing one thing -- doing exactly what the rider tells it to, immediately, even if that input is "crash, right now!" Obviously, I'm paraphrasing a bit, but the point is that they react very quickly and with authority. Somebody who has not learned proper control skills on an easier bike will be in over their head quickly. Consider a total n00b toodling along at 30 MPH on the S1000RR. Said n00b hits a pothole or piece of road debris that was obscured by the bus in front of him (problem 1...no experience riding in traffic, no expectation that the two-track vehicles often straddle debris). Due to the impact, n00b cracks the throttle a bit and the bike suddenly rockets forward from 30 to 50 MPH in a short burst. (problem 2....no throttle control, probably also gripping the bars too tightly). N00b further tightens death grip on the bars and target fixates on the back end of that bus looming ahead. (problem 3...no experience overcoming target fixation). Noob panics and, instead of squeezing the clutch (problem 4...no muscle memory that the clutch is the fastest, safest way to cut power to the wheel) GRABS the front brake (Probelm 5...no muscle memory for proper braking skills...squeeeeze) and activates the ABS that will supposedly save his ass. The ABS kicks in, but n00b still has death grip on the bars and tries to muscle the bars to the side. The bike pitches forward, n00b slides up to the tank and then the bike lofts the rear wheel, pitching the n00b into traffic where he is promptly run over by a lifted diesel pickup truck.

[slide]

Originally Posted by wiseblood

It's amazing how much power sportsbikes have. Which reminds me, has anyone ever heard this story?

There was a thread here recently along the same lines. A H-D was going 130 mph off a freeway when the rider hit a barrier. The bike kept on going accelerating a bit as it went for a long ways before tipping over.

205 mph Honda? It must have been the 110, because the 90's top out at 186.

[DAKEZ]

Originally Posted by Griffin44

The acceleration on this bike is not made "safe" by the electronics.

Have you ridden the bike?

It has a mode that all but neuters the thing. That is why some of the rider schools use them.

[rbrsddn]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Have you ridden the bike?

It has a mode that all but neuters the thing. That is why some of the rider schools use them.

Not the MSF though, I'll bet!