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Old 08-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #16
Emmbeedee
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Originally Posted by OceanMtnSea View Post
You do know that in a few years all this will not matter. Google, Apple and Microsoft are all battling to produce free products that will allow people to navigate when and where they want to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ne/9744034.stm.
I think this will happen first, before Google, Apple and Microsoft comes out with acceptable, read rugged and waterproof, devices to match Garmin's hardware.

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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
I think this will happen first, before Google, Apple and Microsoft comes out with acceptable, read rugged and waterproof, devices to match Garmin's hardware.

Hard core loyalist!

Making a piece of hardware waterproof and rugged is the easy part



it is the images, maps and mapping software where they will loose out............just ask Blackberry about trying to run a business on brand loyalty alone.

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Old 08-12-2012, 04:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by OceanMtnSea View Post
Hard core loyalist!
Sticks and stones... but I've already got a great gps with decent maps at reasonable prices so a pie in the sky (or a pig) doesn't make me salivate.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
Sticks and stones... but I've already got a great gps with decent maps at reasonable prices so a pie in the sky (or a pig) doesn't make me salivate.


Don't get me wrong there nothing wrong with being a hard core loyalist ..........it just branding never worked for me and I am always open to new ideas and ways of doing things.

For example cars/motorcyles.....let's see I have owned Toyota (2), GMC, Isuzu (2), Subaru, Nissan, BMW, Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki..........................and I can tell you with first hand experience they all need repairs!

I have NO brand loyalty what so ever, .........although I do prefer coke, but I will drink pepsi too!......just like........... I like Garmin, but if something better comes along - I'm gone!

Oh......um I guess my one and only wonderful wife is the exception to my NO-Branding rule!
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:32 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by OceanMtnSea View Post
...... I like Garmin, but if something better comes along - I'm gone!
I can't disagree.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-12-2012, 07:55 PM   #21
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There are already rugged Android devices hitting the market for the professional field workers. It is only a matter of time before something affordable and more consumer oriented is available. Then you can run whatever mapping app you prefer; and there are plenty that put Garmin to shame.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MrMac View Post
There are already rugged Android devices hitting the market for the professional field workers. It is only a matter of time before something affordable and more consumer oriented is available. Then you can run whatever mapping app you prefer; and there are plenty that put Garmin to shame.
Doubtful. These are very niche market products. Cellphones become affordable because of high volume sales. The average consumer is not going to pay a significant price premium for a rugged product they simply do not need. As an example, no consumer buys a Panasonic Toughbook because they wanted a rugged notebook...
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Lenz1 View Post
Perhaps you could look at an additional storage chip and save the data to that chip instead of using the on board storage
If you mean that the OP should put his maps on an SD card, that still wouldn't work since the map is locked to the gps no matter how it's stored on the unit. If he installed the maps to an SD card then took it out of that gps and put it into a different gps, the map data would not be accessible.

But as others have said, it's not all maps which are locked.

In Canada, we're lucky because Topo Canada V4, the most recent version, is not locked. Mind you, it hasn't been updated in quite a while. Perhaps that's not terribly important for a Topo product, but it does also include auto-routing information as well and some of that is out of date.

That's why I don't mind buying new maps when I upgrade my gps. I end up with better maps. And CN-NA for $75, then another $75 for Lifetime Map Updates is not unreasonable to me.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Emmbeedee View Post
I think this will happen first, before Google, Apple and Microsoft come out with acceptable, real rugged and waterproof, devices to match Garmin's hardware.

You're right on, though there are occasional exceptions to that rule!



Nothing is really free anyway. If the maps is "free", you'll either be looking at ads on your GPS screen, or have popups telling you you're passing a sale at the furniture store you're riding past, or you'll pay for the maps in the cost of the hardware. The day they truly give stuff away for free is the day YOU will work 40 hours a week at your job without pay, because your customers or boss demand it.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:28 PM   #25
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You're right on, though there are occasional exceptions to that rule!



Nothing is really free anyway. You'll either be looking at ads on your GPS screen, or have popups telling you you're passing a sale at the furniture store you're riding past, or you'll pay for the maps in the cost of the hardware. The day they truly give stuff away for free is the day YOU will work 40 hours a week at your job without pay, because your customers or boss demand it.
ROTFL.

That pig's not flying, it's jumping. Pretty amazing anyway. You're a brave man.

And +1 on the real cost of 'Free' stuff.
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"The motorcycle, being poorly designed for both flight and marine operation, sustained significant external and internal damage," police noted.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:38 PM   #26
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Niche, like the Zumo? A Trimble Juno can be had for under $700. If it ran Android, I would go that route before getting a Garmin. There is a market: all these people still buying handheld GPS's! And people wanting more durable smart phones. They're coming:

mobileenterprisestrategies.blogspot.com/2012/07/finally-tide-of-rugged-android-devices.html

http://www.techshout.com/features/20...ndroid-phones/
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:52 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by EmmEff View Post
Doubtful. These are very niche market products. Cellphones become affordable because of high volume sales. The average consumer is not going to pay a significant price premium for a rugged product they simply do not need. As an example, no consumer buys a Panasonic Toughbook because they wanted a rugged notebook...
It's here - Samsung Rugby Smartphone shock proof and waterproof for 1 metre and 30 minutes... It's "free" with a 3 year plan in my country...
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:14 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by OceanMtnSea View Post
You do know that in a few years all this will not matter. .
Convergence has been taking place for years. But at this point, the purpose built devices are still better GPS units than any low priced app on a phone IMHO.

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Originally Posted by OceanMtnSea View Post
Hard core loyalist!
Nope, not al all. I just realize what licenses permit and what I am paying for when I buy something, GPS or otherwise.

I will be in the market for a new moto GPS product at some point in the not too distant future. It will be interesting to see what is out there in the near term. But at this point - exposing my phone or a tablet to the elements while riding is not a choice for me.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by OceanMtnSea View Post

...Do you really think the current Garmin business model of charging and recharging the customer for every map and upgrade will last..
..
I Bought a Garmin Zumo 660 about three years ago. I bought Lifetime maps a while after buying it. I have had it replaced three times. Two of those times I broke it myself not warranty.

I have never paid for another map after the intial lifetime map purchase.
I don't see how that is unfair in any way? If I bought a different unit then it wouldn't surprise me to have to buy maps, and some of the units now come with Lifetime maps included in the purchase price.

..Tom
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:08 PM   #30
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I Bought a Garmin Zumo 660 about three years ago. I bought Lifetime maps a while after buying it. I have had it replaced three times. Two of those times I broke it myself not warranty.

I have never paid for another map after the intial lifetime map purchase.
I don't see how that is unfair in any way? If I bought a different unit then it wouldn't surprise me to have to buy maps, and some of the units now come with Lifetime maps included in the purchase price.

..Tom

Lots of caveats involved and is only available for the City Navigator:

If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately or bundled together with certain GPS models), you will receive up to 4 map data updates per year, when and as such updates are made available on Garmin’s website, for 1 compatible Garmin product until your product’s useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier, whichever is shorter. A product’s “useful life” means the period during which the product (a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data and (b) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs. A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more. Unless otherwise stated, the updates you receive under the subscription will be updates to the same geographic map data originally included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. In some instances, your Garmin product might not have sufficient memory remaining for you to load an update to the map data, in which case you will need to either (a) select reduced map data coverage for your updates, or (b) purchase separately a microSD™/SD™ card (if and as applicable to your Garmin product) and load all or a portion of the map data coverage for your updates to the card and insert the card into the microSD/SD card slot contained in your Garmin product. If neither of the measures in (a) or (b) can be used to address your product’s lack of sufficient remaining memory, then Garmin may conclude that the “useful life” of your product has expired. Garmin may terminate your nüMaps Lifetime subscription at any time if you violate any of the terms of this agreement or your subscription. Your nüMaps Lifetime subscription may not be transferred to another Garmin product.

As I read it having your unit replaced 3 times could be considered "major repairs" .....so as I read it you are technically lucky?

It does go some way to addressing complaints, but I do not see this as the answer.

I think Google Earth should just buyout Garmin and move the technology to the next level!

J
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