Energy Conserving Oil

[klaviator]

Originally Posted by Barnone

How many of you 1000 (small engine)/3000 (large engine) mile oil change advocates have ever had your used oil analyzed? None? That's what I thought.

Oh, it's too expensive to have the oil analyzed, cheaper to just change the oil and send your wasted money to Saudi Arabia via the oil companies? Just keep wasting oil, huh?

I go by the manufacturer's recommendation and have never had an engine failure due to oil in my 58 years of fooling with internal combustion engines.

I knew a guy once that worked for Mobil. He had access to their oil testing facilities. He put Mobil one in his car and tested it every 3000 miles. After 15,000 miles it was still nearly as good as new.

One thing he did say that I found interesting was this. Most of those oil change places buy oil in bulk. That oil is not of the same quality as the oil you get in bottles at the auto parts store. He said that changing the oil every 3000 miles is probably a good idea if you use the bulk oil from the oil change places. if you buy the stuff from the auto parts store then it should be good for the period specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

This all second hand information so I can't verify any of it.

[ObiJohn]

Originally Posted by JerryH

But all is not lost. Diesel engines do not have emissions crap on them like cars and motorcycles, and diesel oil still contains a lot of these additives. So if you can use the 15w40 viscosity that diesel oils come in, that is by far the best thing to use. I am a professional auto, truck, and heavy equipment mechanic for a city fleet services department. I have had 35 years of experience and training. We use 15w40 Shell Rotella diesel oil in everything, from large diesel trucks and tractors, to cars and pickups, and landscaping equipment. We get it in 55 gallon drums. My boss, who buys the oil, is a few years older than me, and feels the same way I do about it. Most new cars recommend 5w30 or less, including 00w30 and 00w10. you can even get 00w0. This stuff is like water, and will not protect an engine. Hydraulic oil, including transmission fluid, is straight 10w. Ever wonder why engines almost always outlast automatic transmissions? It has mostly to do with the super thin oil automatic transmissions use. It may work fine in the hydraulic system on a backhoe, but it does not protect moving parts, like the gears in a transmission. I have never seen diesel oil cause any problems when used in cars, pickups, or motorcycles.

But the main thing is to never use anything thinner than 10w40, and in a scooter, change it every 1000 miles. If you choose to use $15 a qt. synthetic, fine, as long as it is at least 10w40, and you change it every 10,000 miles. I have 4 motorcycles, 2 scooters, 2 cars, and a truck to change oil in. So I use the cheapest oil I can get, Walmart SuperTech. and I change it often. And my engines last forever.

So, you're saying that I can use $10/gal 15W-40 Walmart SuperTech in my FJR1300, Honda DN-01, and Honda CRF230L, change the oil every 1000 to 3000 miles, and get the performance and life out of the drivetrains that I would if I used more expensive motorcycle-specific engine oils?

[JerryH]

I use 20w50 SuperTech, which gives a bit more protection than 10w40. If you want to use 15w40, I highly recommend Shell Rotella, Chevron Delo, or Mobil Delvac. They are also available at Walmart, are as good or better than motorcycle specific oils, because they have more zinc and phosphorus in them.

The FJR1300 and CRF230L should be fine with any oil recommended by new car manufacturers. I use the ST 20w50 in my 1985 Goldwing, 2002 Vulcan 750, 2001 XT225, and 2009 EX500 with no problems. I bought the Vulcan 750 new, and have put 74,000 miles on it in 10 years, they only problem being failure of the defective cam chain tensioners, a common problem with this bike. Replaced them with aftermarket manual ones, and never had another issue. I expect it to go well past 100,000 miles. And yeah, that is a lot of oil changes. But the inside of that engine is as clean as the day I rode it home from the dealer. That will not happen with ANY oil if you leave it in for 15,000 miles.

Some engines are prone to sludge buildup due to improper crankcase venting. The 2002-2005 Honda Metropolitan and all years of the Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix come to mind. It doesn't matter how often you change the oil in those engines, they will be short lived due to a factory defect.


As for the DN-01, I have no clue about that one. It uses an automatic transmission, which may have specific oil requirements.

[Phipsd]

Originally Posted by klaviator

The advantage of 5w is that it will work better on start in cold weather. Otherwise it's the same as a 10w-40 or 15w-40. I use it in both of my scooters. In my motorcycles I use Rotella 15w-40 conventional oil. I don't ride my motorcycles that much and end up changing the oil annually rather than because of mileage so I don't see the need for synthetic.

I use Rotella because it's a heavy duty oil but is relatively inexpensive. If the Rotella synthetic came in 10w-40 I'd use it but it only comes in 5w-40.

My resident engineer told me years ago that any oil that would keep high pressure turbo diesels happy for a long time is very good oil indeed. Fleet oils are extensively durability tested; expensive testing which is not done on small market speciality oils like bike oils. The Rotella is an even better choice because Shell took the trouble to JASO certify it for wet clutch use. It is the only oil I will use in my big bikes.

the scoot normally gets 5-40 Mobil1 diesel synthetic because of the shorter trips and more freqent cold starts and it only takes slightly more than a litre. I have never had an issue with oil usage with the diesel 15-40 oils no matter how far or hard my hot running air cooled bikes were run. Dino motorcycle oils brokedown after 2000 km leading to excessive oil usage. This was true of my 1000 V-Strom, my 1400 Intruder and a nearly new 1500 Suzuki C90.

With the Rotella never a problem either with the engines or the clutches.

[Tacoma]

My Tmax has a wet clutch AND a CVT belt drive clutch.

some of you guys just go overboard about motor oil and change it at too few miles
In my book a good grade of full synthetic oil never wears out but the oil filter does wear out.
We don't have X-Ray vision like Superman does so we can't see inside the oil filter to see if its full of dirt and the bypass valve is open or not.
You see? its more important that the flow of oil isn't stopped thru the filter than it is important that the oil filter becomes filled with dirt and the check valve opens and floods all that dirt back into your engine.
If-IF you use a cheap oil filter with a high quality motor oil then you're just defeating your purpose of paying big money for that $15/Qt oil.

How do i do it? I use the top synthetic brand of motorcycle oil ,, I change the oil every 8000 to 10,000 miles,,,,,, BUT!!!! change just the spin on oil filter ONLY at every 2500 miles, then I just add enough of new oil to replace what was lost just by changing the oil filter.

Just so I don't get anybody upset with me and call me names I won't tell you what name brand of oil and fiters I use..

But the mistakes I have see too many people made in the past is they overfill the oil when they change it,,, they make the mistake of reading the operators manual and pouring in exactly whats listed,,, but they fail to understand you never drain all the oil out of the engine, some is left over you can't get out so you overfill it.... I have found my Tmax takes 2.9 Qts on a oil change where some experts say its 3.1 qts,,,, In my book you can do much more harm to the engine by overfilling it than slightly underfilling it!

[Tacoma]

yea,,,,, thats me! I am that guy that cuts open the old oil filters to see how much crap has accumulated in them,,,,,,and yea !!! its surprized me! I have had older bikes that the filter is at least 3/4th full with 3000 miles,,,,,,, but you have to understand it depends on the brand of the filter you are using,,,,, some filters do a much better job trapping dirt while other filters allow the dirt to flow thru.

I know i am going to get in trouble saying this and everybody says I am full of it,,,,, but a good grade of synthetic is refined in a very small molecule and all the small molecules are exactly the same size,,,,so the oil filter you use has to match the small molecule size of the oil or the small molecule holding pieces of dirt would pass thru the bigger micron opening of the oil filter media.
With the right oil and oil filter , the oil filter will trap much more dirt much more quickly,,,,,, but maybe you guys don't want that to happen,,,, so maybe you're better off using a cheaper brand of motor oil with different size molecules with cracked molecules in it and a cheaper grade of a filter with large micron media, where your oil filter only trapps large size dirt particals and allows the smaller pieces of dirt to pass thru.
Me?? I use the top oil filter and it does too good of a job collecting dirt really fast,,,, and the smaller molecule oil I use carries and leaves behind more dirt in my oil filter........my engine is much more sterile like a hospital

if you cut open a cheap oil filter after its removed from your bike you won't see much dirt trapped into it cause most of the dirt already passed thru!

I know,,,, I know i'm nuts! just telling what I do and what i believe and i really don't care what oil or filter you use

[Tacoma]

no! the dirt collected in the oil filter is from the unpure and un-burnt hydrocarbons from the gasoline we all use, and some guys that insist on using high perfomance air filters also allow more dirt to get sucked in to their engines,,, thats the secret of those air filters, they have a much bigger micron opening that allows more air (and more dirt) to pass thru,,,,, its the same as just not using any air filter at all!

I said too much already,,,,,, not to insult anybody, i don't mean to insult anybody,,, but I know sooooo much more than most people know about this subject and I know i should have not posted what i did,,,,,, but I just can't help myself,, i mean in a way I don't care how other people take care of their bikes and scooters, i don't really care if their engine fails or not, I only buy new bikes, scooters and atv's cause I never trust how the last owner took care of his bike,,,,,,

[hexnut]

If you took his brain and rolled it up in a ball and rolled it down the edge of a razor blade, it would look like a BB rolling down a 4 lane highway.

[TrashCan]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

but I know sooooo much more than most people know

[Süsser Tod]

OMFG...

Can this thread get deleted/nuked and sent to oblivion?


I apologize to all the Battle scooter inmates for creating yet another oil thread.

[TrashCan]

It's all good.

My 2 cents...

Oil is slick.

Pitchmen sell more product than engineers.

[klaviator]

As long as there are motorcycle/scooter forums, there will be more oil threads. Those who don't like it don't have to click on them.

[Süsser Tod]

Well, at least I didn't screw up that badly, it was only an oil thread... Could have been worse, an oil thread and a chain maitenance thread, that would be bad!

[klaviator]

Originally Posted by Süsser Tod

Well, at least I didn't screw up that badly, it was only an oil thread... Could have been worse, an oil thread and a chain maitenance thread, that would be bad!

Actually, I've been wondering what kind of oil I should use to maintain the chain on my scooter......come to think of it, I completely forgot to oil it

Where is the chain on my scooter.......I can't seem to find it

[hexnut]

Wesson oil...If enough people get into the bathtub, one bottle will fill it up..