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Old 09-10-2012, 12:48 PM   #31
Echo1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
Sounds like a good argument for buying a Yamaha XT250.
Except the new XT250 is fuel injected now too. AFAIK, the only new 250 class dualsport with a carb is the KLX250S.

JerryH has a valid point about fuel injection reliability. The WRR is the first Japanese dualsport with fuel injection and they have/had fuel pump problems. If Yamaha can't get it right who can? Maybe Honda will be the first but they also have a track record of fuel pump failures on their motocross bikes.

To me, these fuel pump issues are the elephant in the room. A fuel pump failure on a street bike can be a pain in the ass. A fuel pump failure on a dualsport way off the beaten path can be a much more serious situation.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:04 PM   #32
strongbad
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Plus the 230L is a 6-speed vs 5-speed for the XT and the 230L is >20lbs lighter. I think I'd go for the 230L.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:49 PM   #33
montesa_vr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo1 View Post
Except the new XT250 is fuel injected now too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strongbad View Post
Plus the 230L is a 6-speed vs 5-speed for the XT and the 230L is >20lbs lighter.
You are both so right. I didn't notice that Yamaha had applied fuel injection to the XT. The fuel pump issue on the WRR is not a universal problem, but there is no question that gravity is more reliable than a pump. Of course, once you go down this road you open a can of worms. My brother's 1973 Husqvarna 125WR left him stranded once because the Motoplat ignition failed. Yet today I never see anyone arguing to bring back ignition points. We will get there with fuel injection.

As far as gear ratios go, the XT has an unusually wide ratio 5-speed -- the spread from 1st to 5th is wider than the six-speed transmissions on the WRR, the old KLR 250, any of the KTMs, the Husqvarna TE610, etc. But credit where it's due, the 230L has the widest spread of any currently available dual sport, and having six speeds reduces the gaps between gears compared to the XT.

As far as weight difference, my figures suggest 24 lbs. So, hat tip to both of you.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo1 View Post
Except the new XT250 is fuel injected now too. AFAIK, the only new 250 class dualsport with a carb is the KLX250S.

JerryH has a valid point about fuel injection reliability. The WRR is the first Japanese dualsport with fuel injection and they have/had fuel pump problems. If Yamaha can't get it right who can? Maybe Honda will be the first but they also have a track record of fuel pump failures on their motocross bikes.

To me, these fuel pump issues are the elephant in the room. A fuel pump failure on a street bike can be a pain in the ass. A fuel pump failure on a dualsport way off the beaten path can be a much more serious situation.
And with the KLX250S actually being sold with fuel injection in other markets it may be that the carb'ed model is on the way out too.

The fuel pump problems on the WR250R affected some of the 2008 models (which was the first model year for this bike). Never the less the thought of my fuel pump dying in the middle of no-where is something that still scares me a bit (I have a 2011 with 23000kms on mine).
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:53 PM   #35
150ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I have not ridden either, but have sat on both. I have studied the specs on both. I have read others opinions on both. And I have my own opinions on their differences. IMO, the 230 is a far superior bike, mostly due to the fact that it has a carb and a proven air cooled engine. It has 2 deficiencies, it needs to be a 250 instead of a 230, and it needs better suspension, with the same travel as the 250. As it is, the 230 is almost a mini bike, sitting on it feels a lot like sitting on my grandsons XR100. Honda would have had a real winner had they just kept the CRF230, made it a 250, and put the suspension from the CRF250 on it.

About the CRF250 being built in Thailand, there is a noticable difference in quality between the 250 and the 230,, with the 230 definitely showing better overall fit and finish. I would never own a fuel injected dirt bike, when FI goes, there is no rigging it. And it's a VERY expensive fix. With a carb, you can often tinker with it, and make it run well enough to get you out of whatever you rode into. With the exception of my '85 Goldwing, I will never own a fuel injected street bike either. The GW uses an ancient analog system with an ECU the size of a breadbox. The fuel pump is big and heavy, and can be replaced with one from a car if necessary. So far it has been fine. The LCD digital instrument panel and trip computer have failed completely however. I use a small GPS unit for a speedometer/odometer.

I think the 230 will seriously outlast the 250. It will still be going strong after the 250s new technology has all failed.

The 250 does not even come close to the performance of the WR if you are a serious off road rider. Of course, with a $2000+ difference in price, you can't expect it to. The KLX250 is an option, at least it has a carb, but it is also liquid cooled. If you go down and puncture the cooling system, you are in big trouble if you are 50 miles from the nearest person, out in the middle of nowhere. Twice I have cut the front brake hose on my XT225 out on the trail, and had to ride back with a rear brake only. Imagine if that was a coolant hose.
Wow, you were kicked out of xt225.com for doing the same thing, now you do it on here?? man...

all i have to say is xt225.com (xt225 and 250 site) has been so much better without you there, go buy a steam powered bike and hit the road, they are much more reliable then this new crap technology.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:57 PM   #36
jon_l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfab View Post
Corrected. I was disappointed with the build quality on my CRF230F/L. It was good for basic trail riding but really shows its limitations when you start pushing it harder. little things break that dont break on more performance oriented machines.
Apparently the CRF230F is Brazilian, but the CRF230L is Japanese. Not sure that's worth much, but some folks really care. Source: http://www.dirtrider.com/tests/off-r...rf230l_review/

I think my Honda CBF1000 is Spanish-made? Or maybe Italian? Knock on wood, no issues in 2 years.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #37
ntm1973
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crf230l would be a lot better off if it had an option for a larger gas tank. Actually, it doesn't have much aftermarket support all. Obviously the crf250l is too new for aftermarket goodies but it looks like it will be a more popular bike than the crf230l. Something to think about if you need a longer range or want racks/panniers.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:43 PM   #38
Ferdinand
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I can get about 170+ miles out of a tank and carry about 50 oz more which gives me about 200+ mile range. Not terrible, but not great. TCI makes custom rack/holder for 1.5 gallon can. I'd prefer a bigger tank also though. I also use the dirtbagz with the duffle on top and has worked really well for many miles. I even carried and extra gallon of gas in one of the bags, but found it to be overkill for where I ride.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:26 AM   #39
Brk4moose
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How 'bout now?

Just curious where people are at with this now that the CRF250L's have hit the road?

My dealer said that they have already had 2 230's traded in for the 250.

I recently picked one if the 250's up and I love it but have no experience other than throwing a leg over the 230L.
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:17 AM   #40
Kommando
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There is something to be said for simplicity. Carrying a a spare CDI out in BFE isn't much easier than carrying a spare fuelpump, but swapping a CDI is usually much easier. Do your research on whatever bikes you're looking to buy, and figure out which fixes are easier for YOU.

People also have different preferences on power delivery, while many are sucked in with HP numbers. HP might be nice for high-speed riding, but torque is where it's at for plonking along.

I'm still trying to understand why mfrs bother with a 250cc dirt-capable bike when they're going to make it 300lb+ with a 34"+ seat-height.

Kommando screwed with this post 11-04-2012 at 10:23 AM
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Old 11-04-2012, 10:31 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommando View Post
I'm still trying to understand why mfrs bother with a 250cc dirt-capable bike when they're going to make it 300lb+ with a 34"+ seat-height.
+1

So much potential. Then it comes out at 317 lbs
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdinand View Post
I can get about 170+ miles out of a tank and carry about 50 oz more which gives me about 200+ mile range. Not terrible, but not great. TCI makes custom rack/holder for 1.5 gallon can. I'd prefer a bigger tank also though. I also use the dirtbagz with the duffle on top and has worked really well for many miles. I even carried and extra gallon of gas in one of the bags, but found it to be overkill for where I ride.
The TCI front rack on my 230L holds the 1.5 gal Kolpin. That plus my stock tank gives 250 to 270 miles range depending how it is ridden. I did not need the extra gas for the WABDR. Plenty of range on the 230L to fuel up on the WABDR

The 250L will also get great mileage per what I read.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:19 PM   #43
73Mustang
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I agree with JerryH. I was flying down a forest trail, and my front of the left shroud got ripped off, almost taking out the radiator. I realized I better slow down because I was miles from the trailhead. My XR 200 was undestructible. I crashed that thing into a freakin' tree, and it just keeps on going. But when I ride my bikes with radiators, I am extra careful and slow down. I don't have any electronic fuel injection bike, and I would be a little bit worried if I was taking such a bike out into the woods or the desert. I think EFI is good for the track and the urban streets, where you can call 911 for help.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:53 PM   #44
stealth916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brk4moose View Post
Just curious where people are at with this now that the CRF250L's have hit the road?

My dealer said that they have already had 2 230's traded in for the 250.

I recently picked one if the 250's up and I love it but have no experience other than throwing a leg over the 230L.
I have been mulling over an upgrade (side-grade?) from my several years old 230L to a 250L for some months, ever since the 250L was announced. For adventure riding, which is why I purchased the small dual sport in the first place, I've decided that 50lbs lighter and much less complexity makes the 230L a winner *for my purpose*. I'm sticking with the lighter bike, air-cooled engine and gravity fed carb. I realize the 250L will be better on the street, but I have street bikes for the street. Of course I long for a faster and smoother street ride to get me to the trail-head, but my type of trail riding dictates light weight and simplicity over technology. I also make extensive use of the low gearing on the 230L to get me up insane mountain goat trails, I'd hate to give that up - (sigh) everything is a trade-off. The 250L will make a bad-A little Super Motard - but the 230L is what I would buy again today for my type of off-road adventures. If I was planning on riding 80% street, I'd go 250L - it will be a hoot in town! For picking my way through the woods, creeks, or up crazy rutted out trails, or if I plan to leave civilization far behind, I'm going 230L.

I also was not aware that the 250L was Thai made - that has a huge impact on my purchase decision. I'm not saying it is crap or there will be a problem, I am sure that Honda has excellent oversight of the process. But what I am saying is you find a different pride in workmanship from Japan vs Thailand, a night and day difference. And when you are talking about a living breathing machine - hopefully one with soul, one that you plan on getting far away with - pride in workmanship means everything.

To those who like to constantly call people by their first name in forum posts while attempting to belittle them for their opinions: I know a little bit about technology, having worked at it for 30+ years to the point I can play with bikes and airplanes. I know enough about technology to know how great and how fallible it is. Speaking of airplanes, I'm one of those people who take a no bullshit approach to vehicle systems: the simpler the better when things go sideways far from home. You don't see a lot of fuel injected airplanes plying the backwoods of Alaska for instance.

If someone who owns a 250L might indulge the audience with a test: Disconnect your battery and then see if you can push start the bike. If you want to spice up the test, load your bike out with 60lbs of camp gear and pretend like you're 300 miles from nowhere, hot and tired. Report back, thanks.

stealth916 screwed with this post 11-13-2012 at 11:50 PM
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:50 AM   #45
NJ-Brett
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I don't worry about FI on bikes, the only thing that is likely to ever fail is the fuel pump at higher miles.
But I don't like the look or the problems that radiators on bikes can cause, or the weight (up high) they add.

And, when riding off road, I really like a lighter bike.
The crf250 is not too bad weight wise, but with the lighter weight and lack of radiators, I think I would pick the 230 and do things to get a bit more power out of it and upgrade the suspension if it needed it.
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