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Old 02-27-2013, 04:00 AM   #1666
M3-SRT8
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Originally Posted by kpmsprtd View Post
(熊本市 - Kumamoto City, Kyushu Island, Japan
Honda Designed - Honda of Japan Built. Best of Both Worlds.

No wonder the reviewers are marveling as to how well put together the bike is, and how well mannered it performs. It's a trbute bike, alright - a tribute to Honda quality.

Sounds like a press release for Honda, I admit. But Honda Quality has always been around, and beyond reproach.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:05 AM   #1667
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Originally Posted by The other Ferret View Post
I think Bonnevilles biggest seller is the T100..still if you want to compare the SE, a 2013 two tone SE lists for $ 8399 plus $495 frt and set up as listed from the factory ....does not have a centerstand, has 57 horsepower and a single disc front brake.

When I bought my T-100 in 2003, the dealer would not discount the bike 1 cent ... incl frt and set up. He did however agree to install FOC the $440 TORs, the $250 centerstand, and the $ 240 grab rail I purchased from him at list price.Not sure if other Triumph dealers discount, but the only Triumph dealer within 100 miles of me wouldn't.
Triumphs "dealer footprint" is much bigger now than it was 10 years ago. Furthermore, from what we've seen, each Honda dealer is getting one, or maybe two 1100s. How much "bargaining" are they going to do once the bike hits the showrooms? My guess is once that one bike is sold, dealers might be lucky to get one more. With that few bikes and with people wanting them, why would they bargain? Now, if the bike sits in the corner and gathers dust, then a bargain may be had, but that won't happen probably until the end of this year, if ever.

Assuming you have 4 local Honda dealers, each one with one bike to sell vs maybe one Triumph dealer who has probably at least a dozen Bonnies of various types. Which dealer is more likely to offer a bargain? IOW it's not the number of dealers that leads to bargains, it's the number of bikes vs buyers. If a dealer knows he's got two buyers both itching to get a CB at full MSRP he'd be stupid to discount it.

Furthermore, you could buy a Bonnie SE (don't know where you got the $8399 price, both Triumph dealers here in CO list it as $7699 for single color and $7399 for two-tone), pay the freight, install a c-stand and still be below the MSRP for th CB.

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Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed my Bonneville and my brother is enjoying it still. I 've never owned another bike that garnered the attention that bike gets. You can't get gas, you can't go to a restaurant, or go to the post office without someone coming up to you to talk about it, a PIA really.
That's the other thing - the Bonnie has a "cool factor" that nothing with a Honda nameplate will ever have. Now that may not be important to you, but it could be to a potential buyer who is cross-shopping both bikes.

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Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
Guth,

Product destined for the Pacific rim area, and North America are assembled in Thailand from British parts. Motorcycles are simply assembled in Thailand. The Thailand assembly plant is a mirror of the Hinckley one, and Triumph claims fit, finish and build quality is the same.

Vin #'s of American sold bikes have a "T" in them to designate Thailand, where Hinckley models have a different letter used.
My Scrambler is Thailand-built and the fit/finish/overall quality are equal to any of the Brit-built Triumphs I've looked at (including the '01 Thunderbird I owned prior to the Scrambler.)

I'm not knocking the CB, I think it's a gorgeous bike and I hope it catches on with buyers. It's just that given the Japanese big-4's risk-averse nature (they prefer to sell bikes with "mass appeal" vs taking risks on radically different designs) and their past history with regard to naked standard bikes, I'm skeptical.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:00 AM   #1668
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"Cool Factor" is very subjective. To me, the CB1100 is far more cool than the current Bonneville. I also find it to be more cool than most any of the previous CBs from past decades. It simply punches all of the right buttons for me. When it comes to Bonnies on the other hand, I consider the late 60's models (pre oil-in-frame) to be some of the coolest and most beautiful bikes ever made. I think it's a shame that Kawasaki did a better job of capturing that vibe than the new Triumph did.

Triumph started to lose its coolness back in the 70's from my perspective. Nevertheless, I was excited to see the brand resurrected. I have to admit that the new Triumph seemed far more cool and appealing to me when their bikes were actually being made in the UK. I get the irony of that statement as I'm sitting here going gaga over an Asian made bike. But that is Honda's heritage.

Thai made Triumphs on the other hand are a large break from that brands heritage and a reminder that today's Triumph is more of a "name only" brand in many ways. That doesn't mean that their bikes aren't of higher quality than they used to be. But when you start talking about things like "cool factor", I for one find such details impossible to ignore.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:09 AM   #1669
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Originally Posted by Guth View Post
"Cool Factor" is very subjective. To me, the CB1100 is far more cool than the current Bonneville. I also find it to be more cool than most any of the previous CBs from past decades. It simply punches all of the right buttons for me. When it comes to Bonnies on the other hand, I consider the late 60's models (pre oil-in-frame) to be some of the coolest and most beautiful bikes ever made. I think it's a shame that Kawasaki did a better job of capturing that vibe than the new Triumph did.

Triumph started to lose its coolness back in the 70's from my perspective. Nevertheless, I was excited to see the brand resurrected. I have to admit that the new Triumph seemed far more cool and appealing to me when their bikes were actually being made in the UK. I get the irony of that statement as I'm sitting here going gaga over an Asian made bike. But that is Honda's heritage.

Thai made Triumphs on the other hand are a large break from that brands heritage and a reminder that today's Triumph is more of a "name only" brand in many ways. That doesn't mean that their bikes aren't of higher quality than they used to be. But when you start talking about things like "cool factor", I for one find such details impossible to ignore.
I have to agree. I like the new Bonnies a lot. The made in Thailand thing doesn't bother me per se and certainly is not a dealbreaker - I still may very well buy one - but,but, but....a Bonneville made in England would be subjectively "cooler". As an American, I personally wouldn't buy a Harley Sportster or big twin that was made anywhere else. Just wouldn't be "right" ya know?

From all reports, the quality or Thailand made bikes from Triumph, Honda, Kawasaki, etc appear to be just as good as homeland made bikes.

Still, talking coolness here, a Japan made CB1100 is cooler than a Thai made one would be. Coolness is sooo subjective.

Note: in case any Harley haters feel the need to chime in, I know a lot of the parts are foreign made. Spare me.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #1670
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Best looking seat I have seen in this thread!
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:52 AM   #1671
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Originally Posted by skysailor View Post
Here the Bonnie can be had for around 9K. The Honda 14.6K
Lyle
What you wrote shows $5,600 difference. I don't think it is that much.

Cheapest Bonnie Canadian MSRP = $9k

CB1100 Canadian MSRP = $13.2k

$4.2k difference + 13% tax = $4,750 difference

T-100 (in colour, not black) MSRP = $10.3k, difference = $2.9k. Add 13% tax, Honda premium = $3,277
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:31 PM   #1672
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Originally Posted by ZappBranigan View Post

I'm not knocking the CB, I think it's a gorgeous bike and I hope it catches on with buyers. It's just that given the Japanese big-4's risk-averse nature (they prefer to sell bikes with "mass appeal" vs taking risks on radically different designs) and their past history with regard to naked standard bikes, I'm skeptical.

ummm, I think Honda has been anything but risk averse.

nc700
ctx700
cb500(s)
dn01
nt700v
fury
rune
ace
then there's a long history of v4's, a flat 6, the CBX1100...

Suzuki gave us the Katana and the B-King, both pretty radical at the time. They also put a wankel in a bike, and remember the old water cooled two stroke 750? Off the charts at the time. The V-Strom was a gamble too.

Yamaha stuck their neck out with the FZ8, and they broke new ground for the Japanese in the cruiser market. OK Star is not too radical when compared to HD, but still, it was a risk for Yamaha. They also gave us the Super Tenere.

Kawasaki? The original Concours was the first true Japanese sport tourer. They also had a liquid cooled 6 banger for a while.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:32 PM   #1673
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Originally Posted by ZappBranigan View Post

Furthermore, you could buy a Bonnie SE (don't know where you got the $8399 price, both Triumph dealers here in CO list it as $7699 for single color and $7399 for two-tone), pay the freight, install a c-stand and still be below the MSRP for th CB.
I googled 2013 Triumph Bonneville SE and clicked on the first link

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/...-ar138829.html
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:45 PM   #1674
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Originally Posted by Mobiker View Post
Still, talking coolness here, a Japan made CB1100 is cooler than a Thai made one would be. Coolness is sooo subjective.
Oh, yeah. If the cb1100 was made in Thailand or China, it would become immediately suspect in my eyes. To me, it would conjure up images of a fast 'n cheap, phony-baloney cb750 wanna-be. Something to delude and trick me out of my cash. A charlatan's creation.

When I buy something like this that conjures up past glories, I want all the bragging rights. I want a 21st Century, true to it's roots, uninterrupted lineage, direct DNA, up to date example of the motorcycle that changed motorcycling forever. Designed AND Made in Japan, by the Company that created the origional, by Nippon's Best. By the people who's Fathers and Grandfathers worked there.

"Made in Japan." It's amazing to me, a classic Baby Boomer, how much that saying has changed in meaning. Talk about perception. In the early 60's, when I was a kid, it meant you were being jipped, pure and simple. Now, it means World Class Quality, beyond reproach.

I hear the President of Honda Motorsports rides one. Good for Him, and that's good enough for Me.

M3-SRT8 screwed with this post 02-28-2013 at 05:47 AM
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:50 AM   #1675
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Originally Posted by M3-SRT8 View Post
Oh, yeah. If the cb1100 was made in Thailand or China, it would become immediately suspect in my eyes. To me, it would conjure up images of a fast 'n cheap, phony-baloney cb750 wanna-be. Something to delude and trick me out of my cash. A charlatan's creation.


"Made in Japan." It's amazing to me, a classic Baby Boomer, how much that saying has changed. Talk about perception. In the 60's, when I was a kid, it meant you were being jipped, pure in simple. Now, it means World Class Quality, beyond reproach.

I hear the President of Honda Motorsports rides one. Good for Him, and that's good enough for Me.
Sing it brother! If this bike wasn't made in Japan I would give it the crooked eye
I am from the machine tool world and made it Japan carries some serious weight.
And what is with the bonnie talk in this thread..and always tied to price. Who cares if it cheaper. If that is the criteria then go with god and move on...I dare ya
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:13 AM   #1676
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And what is with the bonnie talk in this thread..and always tied to price. Who cares if it cheaper. If that is the criteria then go with god and move on...I dare ya
Gary
Welllll...I kinda understand that. I mean, they are both tribute bikes, currying favor with those bent on a nostalgic trip down Memory Lane.

Primary difference betwixt the two entities is Triumph's 'lineage' was purchased by an outside company formed expressly for that purpose, whereas Honda's pedigree is pure and unimpeachable. The decades-long, multigenerational, home-grown, uninterrupted, earned by sweat variety. The Real Deal.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:39 AM   #1677
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Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
What you wrote shows $5,600 difference. I don't think it is that much.

Cheapest Bonnie Canadian MSRP = $9k

CB1100 Canadian MSRP = $13.2k

$4.2k difference + 13% tax = $4,750 difference

T-100 (in colour, not black) MSRP = $10.3k, difference = $2.9k. Add 13% tax, Honda premium = $3,277
The 14600$ was quoted to me by the Winnipeg dealer. Only ONE is being brought into the prairie provinces, and the "stealer" wants all the money he can get. (I'm sure he'll get it...some folks have $$$ and don't GARA) I may well be able to save 1K buying it in Toronto. It's a LONG two day ride from where I live. Kind of like living in Texas, and buying a bike in NY. This, and the Winnipeg dealer WILL NOT service anything they don't sell.
Even using your numbers of 4750$ difference....it's still not what I'd call a fucking bargain?
Nobody seems to be able to explain to me how H-D can sell a Street Glide in Canada for 22600$ while in the States they sell for 22400$, and yet this Honda is almost 4000$ more in Canada.
My feelings are that Honda Canada is in the rip off business.
For an extra 2.5 K I can get into an R1200R! This is the price point Honda is flirting with here......and I'll take an R1200R over anything Honda makes....
Lyle
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:48 AM   #1678
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The 14600$ was quoted to me by the Winnipeg dealer. Only ONE is being brought into the prairie provinces, and the "stealer" wants all the money he can get. (I'm sure he'll get it...some folks have $$$ and don't GARA) I may well be able to save 1K buying it in Toronto. It's a LONG two day ride from where I live. Kind of like living in Texas, and buying a bike in NY. This, and the Winnipeg dealer WILL NOT service anything they don't sell.
Even using your numbers of 4750$ difference....it's still not what I'd call a fucking bargain?
Nobody seems to be able to explain to me how H-D can sell a Street Glide in Canada for 22600$ while in the States they sell for 22400$, and yet this Honda is almost 4000$ more in Canada.
My feelings are that Honda Canada is in the rip off business.
For an extra 2.5 K I can get into an R1200R! This is the price point Honda is flirting with here......and I'll take an R1200R over anything Honda makes....
Lyle
Would trade/import/tariff agreements have anything to do with it?
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:03 AM   #1679
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Would trade/import/tariff agreements have anything to do with it?
NAFTA will have a say. US built bike versus Japanese built bike.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:04 AM   #1680
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Originally Posted by M3-SRT8 View Post
Oh, yeah. If the cb1100 was made in Thailand or China, it would become immediately suspect in my eyes. To me, it would conjure up images of a fast 'n cheap, phony-baloney cb750 wanna-be. Something to delude and trick me out of my cash. A charlatan's creation.

When I buy something like this that conjures up past glories, I want all the bragging rights. I want a 21st Century, true to it's roots, uninterrupted lineage, direct DNA, up to date example of the motorcycle that changed motorcycling forever. Designed AND Made in Japan, by the Company that created the origional, by Nippon's Best. By the people who's Fathers and Grandfathers worked there.

"Made in Japan." It's amazing to me, a classic Baby Boomer, how much that saying has changed in meaning. Talk about perception. In the early 60's, when I was a kid, it meant you were being jipped, pure and simple. Now, it means World Class Quality, beyond reproach.

I hear the President of Honda Motorsports rides one. Good for Him, and that's good enough for Me.

Yeah, I was talking to a salesman once. I told him the Japanese build the best motorcycles in the world. He agreed. I am sure the fact that he was of Japanese descent and selling Japanese motorcycles had nothing to do with it.

I remember when anything labelled "Made in Japan" was called "Jap Junk". They sure stood that on it's ear. Detroit didn't hurt them any either, with the crappy quality they were producing in the 70's and 80's.

I gotta add though, the Koreans are also doing a heck of a job getting their quality where it needs to be. My Sonata has 163k on it, still going strong. It eats Camrys and Accords for breakfast.
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