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Old 02-06-2013, 05:37 PM   #1261
dirtdreamer50
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Honda's largest and longest selling two wheel vehicle is the 50cc Cub/Super Cub. Most owned single vehicle in the world. (My first bike, 43 years ago, too.) Perhaps with success like that, they don't feel the need to market specifically to USA buyers when the world buys from them without question. Just a thought, though.... tp
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:44 PM   #1262
RedRocket
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Originally Posted by ZappBranigan View Post
Maybe to the dealer, but not to the salesman.

Wife and I had a conversation about this back in August when she was shopping for a new car. After getting the usual runaround/high pressure sales/bs, she asked "why are car salesmen so terrible to deal with?" I think it's because in many ways, car salesmen are the bottom feeders in the sales world. That's why there's such high turnover. Look in the classifieds and you'll usually see lots of ads for dealers looking for sales people and even offering to train those with no experience. That right there tells you that the turnover is very high (in most car sales where I've dealt with a salesmen, he had been selling for less than 3 months.)

To the salesman who's been on the job for a couple of months and who knows that within another few months he's either going to quit, get fired, or (if he's successful) move up into a better job somewhere else, why should he care about your long term satisfaction? And given that many auto and MC sales people are paid on commission only (or mostly commission), they have a much more basic need to sell than they do to make you happy because if they don't sell, they don't eat. Your happiness or long-term satisfaction is far, far down their priorities list.

I'm probably one of the worst tire-kickers out there. I'll go and look at something, do research on the internet, shop around, deliberate, consider, go back to the dealer, look again, ask some questions, think about it, deliberate some more, sleep on it, and eventually, maybe, after all that process, I might buy. And that's for something like a jacket or a helmet - for a Motorcycle or a car it takes literally months and months of research before I really know what I want and feel comfortable shelling money out on it. So in a lot of ways I feel sympathy for the sales people, even though I still regard them as an adverary.

It's a tough life and I sure as hell am glad I don't have to live it.


I think I can tell why YOU have such a bad time when when you visit a dealership.
A customer like you is torture. Most dealerships use an Up List where salesmen take customers in order as they arrive on the lot. Every time you show up to kick tires, and look at the colors again the unfortunate salesman that's saddled with helping you gets jacked off by you for a half hour or so, then ends up back at the bottom of the Up List. You just took away another opportunity for him to make a living by helping someone who comes there to actually accomplish something by going there, like uh actually trying to buy a car.

You are correct, it's not an easy job, and most people fail at it, though there are plenty of professionals too, they're probably just hiding from you.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:48 PM   #1263
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Originally Posted by ZappBranigan View Post
Maybe to the dealer, but not to the salesman.
Sorry, you were the one who used the word dealer to begin with.

I'll even add that if it's important to the dealer, than it's going to be important to the salesman. It sounds like you might shop at a lot of places that I wouldn't set foot in. If the dealer's mentality is cutthroat, then that's where you apt to find salespeople that are a pain to be around. I won't put up with a lot of the bullshit mentioned, nor am I driven by the best possible deal. I like to buy items from places that I feel good about supporting. I don't want to pay the highest price out there, but I do like to find a fair deal. I understand that people need to make money to survive. Just as places of business need customers to survive, I prefer to frequent business that I respect in hopes of them sticking around as well.

The other part of the equation is the customer. Some of them are a real pain in the ass and it probably wouldn't matter where they go, they aren't going to be happy no matter what, so why even bother trying to appease them? The salesman might choose to quote them something ridiculous, enough so that if they choose to go through with the deal it will make it worth the salesman's time. But with customers like that, most sane people would rather move on to the next opportunity.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:09 PM   #1264
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Dirtdreamer,you and I had similar begining to motorcycling.My first was white 50 Cub,next was a huge at the time 150 dream,blue with a red seat.There have been to many to remember since those days.I love the look and idea behind the CB1100 but since I bought a new Yamaha Tenere last year to sit with the other two machines my wife might spaz out if I bring another one home.If you here loud screaming coming from west tennessee you will know I could`nt help myself.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:14 PM   #1265
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Sometimes, a lack of advertising thru normal channels (i.e., Print and Television) does not doom a product, particularly if they are going at it thru 'modern' media, like the Net. Like here.

I don't watch too much television any more. I surf the Net and read up about stuff I want there, too. I check the newstands at Barnes & Noble to see which Motorcycle Mags have reviewed the cb1100. Most have, and very positively.I don't buy Motorcycle Mags, I brouse them, and put them back on the shelf. I use it to reinforce what I already know from the Web.

Honda's launch video on their Website is a pretty good, emotion prodding, and dynamic introduction to the cb1100. I'm a bit surprised why they don't use an edited version for a few TV Ads, on Cable Channels like AMC and TCM. Wouldn't hurt.

Don't really care, though. I'll have mine in May, just in time for Spring. I'll parade it proudly through town, when I'm not off in the twisties.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27 PM   #1266
siyeh
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Honda didn't have to advertise to hook me on this bike

Once I saw pics of that red bike with blacked out motor and chrome fenders I was toast

toast I tell ya

that's all it took
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #1267
dirtdreamer50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jly51 View Post
Dirtdreamer,I guess you and I had similar begining to motorcycling.My first was white 50 Cub,next was a huge at the time 150 dream,blue with a red seat.There have been to many to remember since those days.I love the look and idea behind the CB1100 but since I bought a new Yamaha Tenere last year to sit with the other two machines my wife might spaz out if I bring another one home.If you here loud screaming coming from west tennessee you will know I could`nt help myself.
Upon it's arrival, the Tenere was considered by "experts" to be a GS wannabe that had little chance of success. Time and testing proved different, though. I read in a recent long term test, that the Tenere proved to be an overall better machine than the venerable GS. Perhaps the 1100 will get enough of a chance to prove itself and become another success for BIG RED, as the Tenere has been for Yamaha.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:06 PM   #1268
Dranrab Luap
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Originally Posted by ZappBranigan View Post

So, what is the real value of my "repeat business?" To a dealer, it's zip. Nada.

What I'm saying with all this is that the dealer/salesman knows two things are pretty likely: The first one is, if you buy a bike from him, it will probably be the only one you buy. By the time you're ready to trade or sell that bike, you may be living in a different town, or the business may be gone, or the dealer may have been bought up by another dealer, or whatever. So you may not even be able to offer "repeate business" to the dealer.

And the salesman has even less incentive to care about your repeat business. Sales people at the big car and MC dealerships are notoriously transient so the salesman knows that his chances of selling you more than one bike are infinitesimally small (which also explains why they usually don't know crap about the products they sell. Seriously, next time you are at a dealership ask the salesman how long he's been there. I'd be shocked if it's over 6 months), .
What you are saying is highly dealership dependent. Many dealers do behave and think the way you described. I've bought a bike or two from that type dealership over the years. Suzuki City in Biloxi MS doesn't treat people that way. As a consequence they have sold me 6 motorcycles over the years and they get a lot of my service business too. They are family owned and have had incredible continuity in sales, parts and service staff. Most of their customers are repeat customers.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:10 PM   #1269
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Nice one Alice!
I wondered if anybody'd get that

You can get anything you want...
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #1270
dirtdreamer50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jly51 View Post
Dirtdreamer,you and I had similar begining to motorcycling.My first was white 50 Cub,next was a huge at the time 150 dream,blue with a red seat.There have been to many to remember since those days.I love the look and idea behind the CB1100 but since I bought a new Yamaha Tenere last year to sit with the other two machines my wife might spaz out if I bring another one home.If you here loud screaming coming from west tennessee you will know I could`nt help myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobiker View Post
I wondered if anybody'd get that

You can get anything you want...
Got it too. Listen to Arlo every Thanksgiving for many years, now.
For the unenlightened....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjKF7aQthcQ

Enjoy...tp
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:44 AM   #1271
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Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post
I think I can tell why YOU have such a bad time when when you visit a dealership.
A customer like you is torture. Most dealerships use an Up List where salesmen take customers in order as they arrive on the lot. Every time you show up to kick tires, and look at the colors again the unfortunate salesman that's saddled with helping you gets jacked off by you for a half hour or so, then ends up back at the bottom of the Up List. You just took away another opportunity for him to make a living by helping someone who comes there to actually accomplish something by going there, like uh actually trying to buy a car.

You are correct, it's not an easy job, and most people fail at it, though there are plenty of professionals too, they're probably just hiding from you.
I think that if I am spending some large percentage of my annual income on something, I also need to spend some time making sure I have made the right choice. Now I don't ask for a sales men's time unless I am serious, but just because I am serious doesn't mean I am obligated to buy anything.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:02 AM   #1272
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Son..OF..A..B**** I cannot wait until this bike finally hits the shore..lessons in salesmanship..other things that Honda does or doesn't do right...
At least then all the people on this thread that were never going to get one anyway..will have new reasons and theory's.
Gary
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:40 AM   #1273
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Originally Posted by dirtdreamer50 View Post
We are all speculating as to what Honda is thinking and planning, but if we read the posts here, it seems that dealers, even those in metro areas are getting allocated one or two bikes. It appears that Honda is taking no chances on the CB's movement or success, positive or negative. I have seen no ads for them in any of the major mc mags, and that is a very telling action, too.

Without presale intro ads, and stock enough to keep one on the floor at all times, the line is doomed before it is even available. If only a hand full of folks are able to buy them, and the model dies, dealers will not carry parts, after market companies will not make/ carry accessories, etc. It may become a cult classic in 2032, but I will be probably dead by then and not care.

It's ALL about MARKETING! I've been in sales 45 years and have seen so many products come and go, what ever I sold, and it was generally due to lack of manufacturer marketing and support to field its success. Other than this thread, and a few half page first ride reports in mc mags, there has been no real factory marketing push to get buyers interested in the 1100, and that's kinda sad, I think... tomp dd50
This raised my curiosity regarding marketing. I don't watch a ton of TV but I can't recall seeing any motorcycle ads on TV except perhaps for HD. Any ads I've seen are a local station for a local dealer. The same goes for radio. Specific models aren't marketed, just the dealer. As for magazines, l haven't subscribed to a magazine in over a decade. Print media is clearly on the decline. Social media and the magic of the google machine are how many things are marketed today. When I go to the Honda website the splash page says new models and has a picture of six bikes, one being the CB1100. When I google new honda motorcycles my top hit is a press release from honda showing pics of three of the new models. The first shown and 'feature' picture is the CB1100. The Honda facebook page has the six new bikes, including the CB1100 on it. For many products search engines, social media, blogs and forums have replaced the TV, radio and print of the past. That's how I learn about new products and I don't think I am in the minority so I draw no conclusions on how committed Honda is to selling this product based upon traditional marketing outlets. As for the bike, I like the look quite a bit but wish it had a bigger tank and would have preferred shaft drive (heresy for the true traditionalist I know)
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:46 AM   #1274
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The VFR1200X Crosstourer has your bigger tank and shaft drive. As much as I like the CB1100, which is a lot, I also like a whole lot of things about the Crosstourer. Tomorrow we get the announcement about the new Hondas. Will it include the VFR1200X?

kpmsprtd screwed with this post 02-07-2013 at 09:50 AM Reason: Changed link to point to ADVRider thread about Honda Powersports Facebook post
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:36 PM   #1275
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A nice balanced review, new yesterday over at MCN:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...00-first-ride/
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