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Old 08-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #91
Manuel Garcia O'Kely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCase View Post
You mean as fast as you can dig the scope out of your eye-socket for a follow-up shot?

I remember as a teenager my dad had a 300 Weatherby Mag. One day I took it without his knowledge/consent and started blasting at a target at 100 yards. Third or fourth shot the scope nailed me right between the eyes. I still have the semi-circular scar there. No way I was able to hide my transgression from the old man either.
I'm not laughing at you OM. I've got a .270 WBY mag and that thing may only be a necked down .30-'06 cartridge but it kicks MUCH harder than my .30-'06. There's a .340 WBY at the local gun shop. I doubt I could even shoot a full box at the range with that before my shoulder would be blown clear. But then I rarely shoot my medium bores at this point.

I've shot a .44 mag revolver, and the entire idea of that .50 pistol is a bit frightening actually.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:52 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely View Post
I'm not laughing at you OM. I've got a .270 WBY mag and that thing may only be a necked down .30-'06 cartridge but it kicks MUCH harder than my .30-'06. There's a .340 WBY at the local gun shop. I doubt I could even shoot a full box at the range with that before my shoulder would be blown clear. But then I rarely shoot my medium bores at this point.

I've shot a .44 mag revolver, and the entire idea of that .50 pistol is a bit frightening actually.
I find that shooting a hard kicking rifle is more unpleasant than firing a hard-kicking handgun. It is more systemic. Like being punched hard in the shoulder with a glancing blow off of the cheek. With a handgun it's like being punched in the palm of your hand. Maybe it stings a little, but the wrists, elbows and shoulder soak up a lot of the slap.

I've shot the 500 S&W Magnum extensively. It kicks hard and I think the most full-power rounds I've ever fired at one session has been around 25-30, and that's a stretch.....15-20 is better, not that big of a deal. I wear a padded glove and it's just not that bad. But 10 rounds out of a hard kicking rifle like a 338 or my 9.3x74R, or even fairly stout 45/70 loads, let alone a 375H&H or something bigger, and I'm more than ready to call it a day!
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:52 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by HardCase View Post
But 10 rounds out of a hard kicking rifle like a 338 or my 9.3x74R, or even fairly stout 45/70 loads, let alone a 375H&H or something bigger, and I'm more than ready to call it a day!
I'm wondering just how many Buffalo you're killing out on the range when you have to shoot more than ten hot 45/70's in a session? Or... on how many shots are you missing the target?

Such large rifles aren't for spending the day at the range with (usually - I've known some to lightly reload 45-70 and shoot them a lot). Get it sighted in, then use it. One Buffalo-Bore .45-70 shot... maybe two of them... and your big game is usually ready for quartering.

Ten shots, or more, ... ?!?!?

I'm just gonna say there is a difference between range-wizards and people who actually hunt. The things that bother a range wizard aren't quite the concern of a hunter.

--------

Out in the field my buddy offered up his .45-70 with hot loads (Buffalo Bore?) to shoot at random targets to anyone who wanted to try it. I've seen a marked difference in the way people react to shooting it. Some guys get owned by it, and I still have no clue why. I treat it like recoiling artillery and let the muzzle rise up after the shot all it wants to... and didn't seem to be kicked around by it like those who (I'm guessing) tried to man-handle it. My buddy shoots it the same effective way as I do.

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Old 08-29-2012, 04:36 PM   #94
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my 14 yr old son has a ruger 300mag that would probably work.but the 45-70 are awesome canons
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:54 PM   #95
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YOu can build or buy a lot of different loads for the 45-70. You can get cowboy loads with almost no recoil all the way up to beast that push 3500lbs at the muzzle. I have a guide gun and everything I have shot with it was real dead real fast, pigs to moose. Love the 45-70 & I have an 870 slimmed down for bears.
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Old 08-30-2012, 04:27 AM   #96
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about that 45-70

To quote Elmer Keith, the man that developed the .44mag. "Big bullets make big holes and leave lots of blood" Alot of truth to that.
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:19 AM   #97
Manuel Garcia O'Kely
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I'm just gonna say there is a difference between range-wizards and people who actually hunt. The things that bother a range wizard aren't quite the concern of a hunter.
Guilty. I inherited most of my guns from grandpa and dad, they never really got me into hunting/killing stuff. Went for Pheasants once but with a .410 in the hands of a 9 year old?

I dunno about sighting in - when I got the 30-06 and .270 they needed to be worked on by a good Smith - both had to be re-bedded and I had the Browning re-blued as Dad had worn the muzzle area pretty shiny over the years. Took me a box each to get 'em back on target, but I'm probably pretty stupid, 3 shot groups and all of that.

But that being said, after shooting those a few times at the range, one starts to understand the appeal of the centerfire .22 type, .223 etc.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:07 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Balootraveler View Post
YOu can build or buy a lot of different loads for the 45-70. You can get cowboy loads with almost no recoil all the way up to beast that push 3500lbs at the muzzle. I have a guide gun and everything I have shot with it was real dead real fast, pigs to moose. Love the 45-70 & I have an 870 slimmed down for bears.
Yeah, I load my Guide Gun with 405 gr cast bullets at 1500fps with the bullets not sized or checked and sprayed with motorcycle chain wax for lube. And then I have some gas checks to load them up to 2000fps or greater. They are all accurate and fun to shoot. Real fun, I just grin when thinking about shooting that stainless lil beauty.
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:22 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by fastdadio View Post
To quote Elmer Keith, the man that developed the .44mag. "Big bullets make big holes and leave lots of blood" Alot of truth to that.
I did some research when deveoping wild pig loads for the .44 mag, and found it to be inadequate for grizzly. Many were reporting finding .44 bullets embedded in the fat layer of grizzlys they had killed with 300 Win Mags or 458 Lotts.

If I were limited to long guns,as in Canada, I would be inclined to used a fast repeating gun such as a lever action rifle (45-70), pump shotgun, or automatic shotgun. Shotgun slugs seem to work well. For a bit more money, the auto loading Browning BAR in one of the larger calibers would do well, as they hold 4 rounds, and could double as a long range hunting rifle.

The .454 Casul or 500 S&W are good choices for pistols.

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Old 08-31-2012, 10:41 AM   #100
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To quote Elmer Keith, the man that developed the .44mag. "Big bullets make big holes and leave lots of blood" Alot of truth to that.
This reminds me - Once a soft lead non-hollow-nose .45-70 hits some bone, it flattens out a little and becomes even bigger. Compare that moving diameter, and mass, with the diameter of the best hollow-nose or expanding bullets of smaller calibers and I think it makes many a man a believer.

Quote:
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I dunno about sighting in - when I got the 30-06 and .270 they needed to be worked on by a good Smith - both had to be re-bedded and I had the Browning re-blued as Dad had worn the muzzle area pretty shiny over the years. Took me a box each to get 'em back on target, but I'm probably pretty stupid, 3 shot groups and all of that.
I was always a Winchester guy, over Marlin, since they were around first and since that's what my dad owned. With Winchester shutting down, and Marlin offering just copious amounts of interesting calibers, my buddy and I ended up with our Marlins (his .45-70, and my .357 Mag). Now they are iron sights, mind you, but both were accurate as all get-out from the get-go.

The accuracy you may have been seeking for those weapons would suit actual deer hunting, or possibly planned bear-hunts, but the OP was asking about a "Bear Gun" which, in my mind and based on his post, is an OMFG anti-bear gun. It needs to be quick to draw, have the power, the reload time, and a fast, fast sighting capability... so we're talking iron sights or possibly a scout scope, and the type of accuracy acceptable from such sights. This won't be quarter-sized or dime-sized groupings at 100 yards. Does it hit the black portion of a typical round target at 50 or 100 yards? Yes? Done. With lever-action Marlins, at least, and iron sights... ten rounds is probably overkill by about three but, hell, you're at the range already... why not shoot a few more?

Weight is also an issue with a bear gun... super-duper long rifles are an extra amount of weight to carry on hikes, especially since they are a hiking accessory (i.e. not a tool one plans on using), so in my mind the carbine wins out, with pistols winning even more... but I'm just not a large-caliber pistol guy yet... if I move to Alaska or out west where I had the same concerns as the OP, here, or others who are posting here, I'm pretty sure that I'd eventually have a large caliber pistol on my hip so I could have full dexterity otherwise to accomplish whatever job o past-time I need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel Garcia O'Kely View Post
...

But that being said, after shooting those a few times at the range, one starts to understand the appeal of the centerfire .22 type, .223 etc.
I concur. For range days one of my favorites is a .223 Varminter (AR-15), but it is owned by a friend. I loved the way it made those rounds so pleasant to shoot (the .223 already being a nice target round), so when I got into reloading for my own rifle for subsequent range days I'd load the .223's I was to use in my super-light-weight-build carbine lightly (maybe even sub-sonic?), and would have a peaceful time with my carbine.

I have nothing against comfy shooting for pleasure.

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Old 08-31-2012, 11:10 AM   #101
Manuel Garcia O'Kely
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Well, I agree with everything you say, except that the first time I shoot a new gun I do shoot a few...

And yes, I was getting those two rifles sighted in tight, with scopes. My (not for Griz) Marlin .30-30 is iron and well, I'm just not that great with iron past 50 yards. Plenty good enough for a bear defense gun to be sure though.

I understand your point though, the aiming circle is a lot bigger than a 10 ring...
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:27 PM   #102
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One interesting idea for a bear gun that hasn't been mentioned here would be an AR15 platform with the 50 Beowulf upper!
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:32 PM   #103
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One interesting idea for a bear gun that hasn't been mentioned here would be an AR15 platform with the 50 Beowulf upper!
Sounds perfect! (if you live in a free state )
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:58 PM   #104
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Marlin 1895 45-70, the big loop is just incase the Duke shows up.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:30 PM   #105
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.444 Marlin

I'd love your opinions on the .444 Marlin. I am planning a trip to AK and western Canada for 6 months next year and this is one of the tools on the list. My uncle gave me a brand new .444 Marlin - nice gun, referred to it as a hog gun.

Wondering what you think besides that it's an oddball cartridge.

Thanks
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