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Old 02-14-2013, 05:20 AM   #3211
Ed@Ford
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KRONO: Amazing pages of pictures!!! My plan, now that I have disassembled my muffler is to modify the spark arrestor insert that appears to be unique to the USA & Canada and can be seen on the RamZ site with more holes and screen
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:29 AM   #3212
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CRF250L Service manuals are back in print and available at Helm Inc 1-888-292-5393 61KZZ00 is the part #...credit cards only
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:27 AM   #3213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charleston View Post
Has anyone had an issue with the clutch slipping when you jump on the gas with the clutch lever out (on a good traction surface like pavement)? I have adjusted the clutch free play twice and still sometimes hear the engine wind up faster than the bike speed.

Iím no expert but understand that the clutch uses a judder spring that is supposed to soften clutch engagement but can cause slip when more HP is applied than designed for. My bike is stock, I donít have the stonkin HP that some of you are getting with your mods (I donít even have the go-fast sticker mod).

Thanks
I hope you didn't use car engine oil. (i'm jus' sayin'. Don't be offended.) :)

Apparently, that "judder plate" is a potential problem but so far we haven't heard of any cases here. (Other than yours.)
The "Honda Racing Kit" includes the clutch plates and springs from the CBR250R (so the judder plate is replaced by a normal clutch plate) and these "racing" clutch springs show up on ebay sometimes. (I just saw this now, got an email of new items listed...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modify-CRF25...E:B:SS:US:1123
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:43 AM   #3214
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Repacking the FMF Q4 Exhaust

My Q4 Exhaust and Mega Bomb headers arrived at my home yesterday. Looks real nice!

Although this system has definite performance and weight advantages over the stock set up there is one disadvantage that's a bit of a pain - the Q4 has to be repacked fairly frequently. I found the link below that shows how to repack the muffler, it also says that FMF recommends repacking every 20 hours. I had a ProCircut on my KLR that I repacked when things stared to get a little noisy at 10,000 kms. Time will tell how often I'll have to do it on the CRF250L.

http://www.wrrdualsport.com/tech-gui...packing-fmf-q4
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:50 AM   #3215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat View Post
I hope you didn't use car engine oil. (i'm jus' sayin'. Don't be offended.) :)

Apparently, that "judder plate" is a potential problem but so far we haven't heard of any cases here. (Other than yours.)
The "Honda Racing Kit" includes the clutch plates and springs from the CBR250R (so the judder plate is replaced by a normal clutch plate) and these "racing" clutch springs show up on ebay sometimes. (I just saw this now, got an email of new items listed...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modify-CRF25...E:B:SS:US:1123
I don't know...I think most quality auto oils that don't have the same kind of "friction modifiers" and meet a specific classification are more than suitable for motorcycles with wet clutches sharing the same oil sump. Doing your research and being sure your auto oil is totally compatible is the rub for many users. That said, when I worked at a shop, I saw customers over many years using all manner of quality auto oils in their motorcycles, and I can't say I ever saw a clutch failure related to that. I think this is more critical in competition bikes or even dualsport bikes that get flogged off road where a lot of clutch slipping occurs. Again, that said, I see many close friends over many years using their car oils...Mobil 1, Castrol, etc...in their dualsport and full blown racing bikes with no apparent adverse effects under very harsh abuse. This is one of those reasons why oil threads are toxic...lots of real world examples mixed with all manner of hypotheticals and such to muddy the water.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:57 AM   #3216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
CRF250L Service manuals are back in print and available at Helm Inc 1-888-292-5393 61KZZ00 is the part #...credit cards only
Thanks, just ordered one, $6 ship fee, total came to $55.95.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:37 AM   #3217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat View Post
I hope you didn't use car engine oil. (i'm jus' sayin'. Don't be offended.) :)

Apparently, that "judder plate" is a potential problem but so far we haven't heard of any cases here. (Other than yours.)
The "Honda Racing Kit" includes the clutch plates and springs from the CBR250R (so the judder plate is replaced by a normal clutch plate) and these "racing" clutch springs show up on ebay sometimes. (I just saw this now, got an email of new items listed...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modify-CRF25...E:B:SS:US:1123
An old trick to forestall replacing clutch springs, was to put an appropriate sized washer under every clutch spring to increase the clutch spring preload. That's something "free" to try and see if you can make the slip go away.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:10 AM   #3218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC View Post
I don't know...I think most quality auto oils that don't have the same kind of "friction modifiers" and meet a specific classification are more than suitable for motorcycles with wet clutches sharing the same oil sump. Doing your research and being sure your auto oil is totally compatible is the rub for many users. That said, when I worked at a shop, I saw customers over many years using all manner of quality auto oils in their motorcycles, and I can't say I ever saw a clutch failure related to that. I think this is more critical in competition bikes or even dualsport bikes that get flogged off road where a lot of clutch slipping occurs. Again, that said, I see many close friends over many years using their car oils...Mobil 1, Castrol, etc...in their dualsport and full blown racing bikes with no apparent adverse effects under very harsh abuse. This is one of those reasons why oil threads are toxic...lots of real world examples mixed with all manner of hypotheticals and such to muddy the water.
car oils at what weights? that is the key question.

the normal bike weights (10w-40 & 20w-50) car oils do not have energy conserving labeled on them nor the modifiers in question. it's the lighter weights that do, thus car oil are just fine in bikes. these days most cars use 0w-20/5w-20 to 10w-30 (older cars) which are not used in bikes.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:16 AM   #3219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat View Post
I hope you didn't use car engine oil. (i'm jus' sayin'. Don't be offended.) :)

Apparently, that "judder plate" is a potential problem but so far we haven't heard of any cases here. (Other than yours.)
The "Honda Racing Kit" includes the clutch plates and springs from the CBR250R (so the judder plate is replaced by a normal clutch plate) and these "racing" clutch springs show up on ebay sometimes. (I just saw this now, got an email of new items listed...)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Modify-CRF25...E:B:SS:US:1123
I am not educated on the slightly more complicated motorcycle mechanics, but if the OEM style clutch in the CRF is designed to soften clutch engagement, and you install a new one to prevent that, is that a bad idea with the lack of cush drive?
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:26 AM   #3220
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NesquikNinja View Post
I am not educated on the slightly more complicated motorcycle mechanics, but if the OEM style clutch in the CRF is designed to soften clutch engagement, and you install a new one to prevent that, is that a bad idea with the lack of cush drive?
Technically, you're correct about the cush drive, but with less than 20 horsepower...don't worry... MY OPINION is that the judder spring is to makethe clutch noobie friendly...but all this stuff is nice to know...springs and revised clutch pack to replace the judder thingie

Also..the advertisement said the "R" clutch kit would replace the judder spring in the CBR250R....as I recall...the judder spring is unique to the CRF...please correct me if I'm wrong
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:37 AM   #3221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
car oils at what weights? that is the key question.

the normal bike weights (10w-40 & 20w-50) car oils do not have energy conserving labeled on them nor the modifiers in question. it's the lighter weights that do, thus car oil are just fine in bikes. these days most cars use 0w-20/5w-20 to 10w-30 (older cars) which are not used in bikes.


Recommended engine oil (strait from Helm Manual:)

Pro Honda GN4 4-stroke oil (USA and Canada) or equivalent motor oil
API service classification: SG or Higher
JASO T 903 standard: MA
Viscosity: SAE 10W-30

At 1.5 liters and the service intervals (oil changes) being so great...I think I'll go with the good stuff...

Bob80 screwed with this post 02-18-2013 at 12:28 PM
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:40 AM   #3222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
KRONO: Amazing pages of pictures!!! My plan, now that I have disassembled my muffler is to modify the spark arrestor insert that appears to be unique to the USA & Canada and can be seen on the RamZ site with more holes and screen
I thought about enlarging the holes (windows) on the SA to open it up a bit. I believe Bake posted the Bill Blue was working on a replacement, but have heard nothing further on this. That option would preserve the original. Not sure how much $ is involved in this, maybe he's just modifying the original? Haven't had mine apart yet, would enlarging the windows just be drilling out to a larger size? If the holes were stamped before the made it into a cylinder, that might make enlarging more difficult than just drilling.
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CRF250L Service Manual http://www.hondampe.com.au/docs/owni...F250L13_OM.pdf
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:42 AM   #3223
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eakins View Post
car oils at what weights? that is the key question.

the normal bike weights (10w-40 & 20w-50) car oils do not have energy conserving labeled on them nor the modifiers in question. it's the lighter weights that do, thus car oil are just fine in bikes. these days most cars use 0w-20/5w-20 to 10w-30 (older cars) which are not used in bikes.
The owner's manual makes it plain as day..page 44....in the US SAE10W-30 API Service SG or higher NO "Energy Conserving"

When they say "SG or Higher it means "S" (for spark ignited engines), and "higher" refers to the second letter G or H, or I, or J.....blah blah blah

BUT it is possible to get 10W30 WITH "Energy Conserving"...so look at the back of the bottle for all that on a round white spot

AND SYNTHETIC or synthetic blend doesn't matter as long as the above qualifications are met, but do remember synthetic are less sensitive to breakdown at temperatures above 235F...so it''s good insurance
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:44 AM   #3224
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The oil is still original equipment since I only have a couple hundred miles so far (most of it was in 1st and 2nd gear so maybe it is time for an oil change but thatís a different subject). I thought that maybe if the clutch freeplay came from the factory too tight the slipping could have caused the clutch to glaze (if that is even possible) but Iím pretty sure that I noticed the slipping as soon as it started because it was only when I nailed the gas on pavement with the clutch out. I may take the bike in under warrantee if this slipping is not normal for a CRF250L like other bikes with the judder springs.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:48 AM   #3225
Ed@Ford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAPB View Post
I thought about enlarging the holes (windows) on the SA to open it up a bit. I believe Bake posted the Bill Blue was working on a replacement, but have heard nothing further on this. That option would preserve the original. Not sure how much $ is involved in this, maybe he's just modifying the original? Haven't had mine apart yet, would enlarging the windows just be drilling out to a larger size? If the holes were stamped before the made it into a cylinder, that might make enlarging more difficult than just drilling.
The important thing to remember, the way a US Forest Ranger checks for a functional spark arrestor is he shoves a semi flexible rod up your tailpipe, and he expects it to only go in about a foot or so...and if you haven't looked, you can see the "USFS Approval" stamped into the 4 bolt flange that holds it in place...see pg 56-57 of the owner's manual. Getting caught without this is about a $500 fine and/or bike impound.

EDIT: If you look at the picture of the spark arrestor on RamZ' site you can see the end that is the windows with screen over it...the screen catches the "sparks" that might come out as glowing embers to start forest fires. VERY primitive design...but it is the "law"...without a lot of work, windows cant be enlarged. see also pg 56-57

If you do take all this apart to look/see...reassemble with anti sieze on all threads
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