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Old 09-11-2012, 08:52 AM   #1
kamikazekyle OP
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Montana Route Issues

I picked up a Montana 650T on the recent sale to replace my 76CSx, but have run into some major SNAFUs with routes.

Setup: Firmware 4.50; Basecamp 4.x; CityNavigator NA 12.40 (SD card, enabled); TOPO 1K (internal, disabled); OpenStreetMap (SD card, disabled); BirdsEye Imagery (SD card, enabled). Routing is either Automotive or Motorcycle.

I have a bunch of routes I created in the past within basecamp, and loaded those onto the Montana. In addition, I created two new routes in Basecamp -- one from scratch by hand on my PC, then another I converted from a Google Earth KML track on my Mac. Both the new tracks were made using the 2012.40 CNNA maps loaded on the GPS, and most of the old routes were made using the 2012.40 maps as well.

Routes were transfered to the device using the standard Send To Device function, and stored in the Garmin's internal storage, not the SD card.

I'm having three different issues. Firstly, all of my old routes displays properly while previewing on the Montana, but pops up an error saying it was routed on different maps, do I want to reroute after I hit GO. I hit yes, then I get an error stating that the maps contain no routable data for that area, even though it just did the routing during preview. This includes the ones that were made using the 2012.40 NA map loaded locally on the computer. Basically, none of my old routes work at all on the Montana.

Secondly, the route created on my PC previews fine on the Montana, but when I go to route it only has me drive to the final waypoint with no routing at all. It displays "Drive to LastWaypoint" with no turn-by-turn at all, and the Last Waypoint is the only thing in the direction list some 20 miles away.

Thirdly, the converted route on my Mac actually displays the correct route AND continues to display the correct route after I hit GO. However, it does not offer an option to navigate to the start of the route like my 76CSx. This is a bit of an issue since the starting point is over 70 miles away in a straight line and requires a good chunk of turns to get there.

Routes created manually on the Montana itself seem to work fine, including directions to the start of the route. Basecamp loaded routes also lack the option to edit the route on the device like I could on my 76CSx.

Any idea what's going on?

EDIT: I've now noticed that after I get the "Map does not have routable roads in this area" error, the TOPO map automatically re-enables itself.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:00 AM   #2
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikazekyle View Post
I picked up a Montana 650T on the recent sale to replace my 76CSx, but have run into some major SNAFUs with routes.

Setup: Firmware 4.50; Basecamp 4.x; CityNavigator NA 12.40 (SD card, enabled); TOPO 1K (internal, disabled); OpenStreetMap (SD card, disabled); BirdsEye Imagery (SD card, enabled). Routing is either Automotive or Motorcycle.

I have a bunch of routes I created in the past within basecamp, and loaded those onto the Montana. In addition, I created two new routes in Basecamp -- one from scratch by hand on my PC, then another I converted from a Google Earth KML track on my Mac. Both the new tracks were made using the 2012.40 CNNA maps loaded on the GPS, and most of the old routes were made using the 2012.40 maps as well.

Routes were transfered to the device using the standard Send To Device function, and stored in the Garmin's internal storage, not the SD card.

I'm having three different issues. Firstly, all of my old routes displays properly while previewing on the Montana, but pops up an error saying it was routed on different maps, do I want to reroute after I hit GO. I hit yes, then I get an error stating that the maps contain no routable data for that area, even though it just did the routing during preview. This includes the ones that were made using the 2012.40 NA map loaded locally on the computer. Basically, none of my old routes work at all on the Montana.

Secondly, the route created on my PC previews fine on the Montana, but when I go to route it only has me drive to the final waypoint with no routing at all. It displays "Drive to LastWaypoint" with no turn-by-turn at all, and the Last Waypoint is the only thing in the direction list some 20 miles away.

Thirdly, the converted route on my Mac actually displays the correct route AND continues to display the correct route after I hit GO. However, it does not offer an option to navigate to the start of the route like my 76CSx. This is a bit of an issue since the starting point is over 70 miles away in a straight line and requires a good chunk of turns to get there.

Routes created manually on the Montana itself seem to work fine, including directions to the start of the route. Basecamp loaded routes also lack the option to edit the route on the device like I could on my 76CSx.

Any idea what's going on?

EDIT: I've now noticed that after I get the "Map does not have routable roads in this area" error, the TOPO map automatically re-enables itself.
There are multiple issues at play here.

First, the v4.50 (and v4.40) created Route bugs.

Second, you should always Recalculate your old routes in BaseCamp on the current map set that is also installed on the Montana before sending the route/s to the Montana. In the interim (until these bugs are fixed) turn you routes into Tracks in BaseCamp. Also, turning your routes into Direct Routes in BaseCamp by adding a few more waypoints and then send the Tracks and Direct Routes to the Montana where it can recalculate the Direct Routes to Along-road routes. Show the Tracks on the map and compare them to the newly calculated routes for confirmation that the route is going where you want. Or, just navigate the Tracks for now.

Third, the Montana has never had the feature to auto-route you to the start of a "remote" route. If you want that feature you should send a feature request to the Montana Team. You won't be the first but the more the better.

I believe that most of these routing bugs have been reported but feel free to express this in your email to the Montana Team.

Cheers,
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DRTBYK screwed with this post 09-11-2012 at 11:06 AM
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Old 09-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #3
Countdown
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Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Third, the Montana has never had the feature to auto-route you to the start of a "remote" route. If you want that feature you should send a feature request to the Montana Team.
Simple work around, I would think there is a waypoint at the start anyway but if not make one. Then just navagate to the waypoint. dah. Even works on out of date, discontinued, crappy, etc. 60/76.
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Old 09-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #4
kamikazekyle OP
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Thanks for the replies, all. I managed to figure out a few things/get workarounds.

I figured out I needed to recalculate my old routes in Basecamp before transferring to the GPS, then they seemed to work. Weird as I could go between the 76CSx and the Nuvi 1490 with the same route, and all three GPSes were using the same CNNA map version (though different licenses, obviously).

I accidentally discovered that you don't actually *need* a navigate to start of route. It'd be helpful to preplan the route, BUT if you just start going it'll recalculate the entire route, which includes navigating to the start of the route.

I'm still not sure what happened to that one route which only navigates me to the end of the route. I'm going to try a recalculate on my Mac and see if that somehow fixes it.

Likewise, the fact the GPS errors out when trying to recalculate a route on a different mapset then dumps that there aren't any routable roads on my map seems like a bug, especially since I get a graphics glitch when it forces me back to the home screen. When it does that, it resets my map enable/disable selections to what the profile first started with irregardless of which maps I've enabled or disabled since.

*shrug* If recalculating my old routes works and now that I figured out it'll automatically navigate to the start of your route once you begin moving, everything else is livable. I do still wish I could edit uploaded routes on the device like I can those created on the device, but the turn-by-turn abilities and native routing of the Montana are a lot better than the 76CSx. That thing liked to route me on an off ramp, over the road, then back to the on ramp just to avoid the highway I was on.
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Old 09-11-2012, 03:20 PM   #5
DRTBYK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamikazekyle View Post
I do still wish I could edit uploaded routes on the device like I can those created on the device, but the turn-by-turn abilities and native routing of the Montana are a lot better than the 76CSx. That thing liked to route me on an off ramp, over the road, then back to the on ramp just to avoid the highway I was on.
The Montana Team has not ruled out editing of transferred Routes but just not now. As for the routing from highway to ramp-ramp to highway, most GPS's will do this if you have Shortest Distance selected as your routing profile and that happens to be the shortest path. I've seen this in BaseCamp and MapSource over the years.

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Old 09-11-2012, 03:33 PM   #6
DRTBYK
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Originally Posted by Countdown View Post
Simple work around, I would think there is a waypoint at the start anyway but if not make one. Then just navagate to the waypoint. dah. Even works on out of date, discontinued, crappy, etc. 60/76.
Imagine that. . .routing to a Waypoint - brilliant!

Hi Jerry!

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Old 09-11-2012, 05:42 PM   #7
kamikazekyle OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
The Montana Team has not ruled out editing of transferred Routes but just not now. As for the routing from highway to ramp-ramp to highway, most GPS's will do this if you have Shortest Distance selected as your routing profile and that happens to be the shortest path. I've seen this in BaseCamp and MapSource over the years.

Cheers,
Actually, the 76CSx did that with shortest time and was the only GPS to ever do that to me (in shortest time mode). But, it did it with Avoid Highways active. It was, essentially, trying to avoid a highway despite having me ON the highway for nearly 100 miles (normal highway, not interstate). It's a quirk with the 76CSx (and its cousins) on the Avoid Highway selection. On Skyline drive, for example, it'd route me onto every outlook to avoid Skyline Drive as it was classified as a major highway. That's another reason I got the Montana. I liked the 76GSx except for its avoidance engine and to a lesser extent its routing engine. The Montana can differentiate between Major Highways, normal highways, and Interstates when it comes to avoidances.

I never did figure out why that one route didn't work. I added a point in Basecamp, and it seemed to revert to Direct routing no matter what route type I selected. It, likewise, transfered as Direct over to the Montana and was now fully editable on the Montana.

I also found out that Direct routes on the Montana can not only be edited on the Montana, but the Montana will then auto-route you to the start of the route. It's a smidgen annoying, but when you think about it, the 76CSx accepted only Direct routes. Basecamp just converted them over to Direct during the transfer.

EDIT: This was pretty much what you were mentioning in your first post, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRTBYK View Post
Imagine that. . .routing to a Waypoint - brilliant!

Hi Jerry!

Cheers,
I thought about doing as Countdown suggested before I figured out the Montana would auto-route you to the start of the route if you just moved enough. But it'd just serve to clutter up my waypoint list, and I'd have to then choose the route once I got to the waypoint anyway. I tried to route to a waypoint before the route, and then add the route as a via selection in Where To? (or the other way around), but it just ignored all the via points in the route and instead navigated me just to the end of the route.

Anyway, until/if the Montana team adds in editing/go-to start of non-Direct type routes in the Montana, the workarounds I mentioned seem to work OK. I might see about checking Garmin's XML spec and seeing if it has a flag for the route type in the resulting GPX file. As I plan my routes as if they were Direct, anyway, if the resulting GPX files on the Montana do have a flag it'd be a cinch to script something to change that flag to a Direct route. That way I can have Basecamp route as a motorcycle or what-have-you, but run this script against the Montana and it'd then convert the routes to Direct and allow to-first-point navigation and on-device editing.

kamikazekyle screwed with this post 09-11-2012 at 06:04 PM
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