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Old 10-16-2012, 08:46 AM   #121
Navin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
That "shitty little front brake" will do stoppies, stock. How much more braking power do you think you can use?

I'm coming from a radial calipered, radial master twin disc KTM 950 SMR and have a 530EXC sumoto so I may be a little spoiled.

As to being cheap, my son just bought a 2012 Ninja 250 and was OTD around $4600. You can't add enough stuff to the 2012 for the $500ish bump to make up for the difference IMO. Just the looks alone are worth $500! Parked next to a CBR250 it is obvious which one is "cheap". The actual price jump isn't that big.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:32 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by kellymac530 View Post
I don't get why people are ok with accepting 380lbs as an acceptable weight for a 250/300 cc class small twin?

With todays technology and alloys and the high tech designs in trannys why cant they get a small cc twin down to 300lbs ish?

These little 250/300 twins should really be 300lbs MAX.
Street-legal Japanese singles like WRR/X, KLXS/SF, CRF250L, etc. typically weigh around 300 lbs (even more for the Honda), while Euro brands are able to knock 50 lbs off this. We still buy them.

I'm sure it is price-driven:

quality, lighter components cost more
R&D costs more

Few people would be willing to pay a lot more for small displacement Japanese bikes, and these companies are in business to generate profits.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:42 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteraan View Post
That "shitty little front brake" will do stoppies, stock. How much more braking power do you think you can use?
+1
I did a ride last weekend with some guys on 1200RT, 990 Adv, and a Suzuki 1000 something...very experienced riders with track time and continental rides under their belts.

My CBR250R with the "shitty little front brake" can outbrake those bikes all day long, in any conditions. We came around a curve to find a truck stopped for no apparent reason. My bike stopped so fast my ass almost swallowed my head. The bikes with the big powerful brakes went right by me on both sides and almost hit the truck.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:52 AM   #124
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I've also noticed that those smaller, lighter bikes with "more then ok" brakes
are easier to stop then the bigger bikes with $$$ brakes.. it's probably all due
to weight.

Just gotta make sure you have top notch tires if you don't have ABS.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #125
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OK, OK, I've awakened the owners of bikes with shitty little front brakes and drawn their ire, OMG!

I said it worked well in this application, despite the bikes weight, and I believe it is due to the rotating mass being so small. It is not nearly as good a brake as my sumoto bike has and I don't care how many 550 lbs adv bikes you out-brake, it isn't a top level piece of brake tech by any stretch. If it was that great I guess the ZX636 would use it too?

It probably needs better tires to over reach it until it gets hot. I haven't gotten it super hot yet, which I'm sure will bring some serious fade as my older Ninjas were commonly brought to a boil and got wimpy damn quick. This one will get a SS line, good fluid and better pads soon anyway but a radial caliper and beefy rotor would sure have been nice.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:02 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Navin View Post
OK, OK, I've awakened the owners of bikes with shitty little front brakes and drawn their ire, OMG!
One concession I'll make is that the downspec single-disc brakes are not up to hard repeated use. They'll stay too hot for too long and fade out.

That's the main reason the high performance bikes (and cars) have the up-spec brakes -- repeated hard use is expected on those bikes/cars. A rider of a 250 or 300 needs to respect his limitations.

But, for a single stop...I'll take my lightweight 250 with ABS up against anybody riding anything with a similar front tire!
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:04 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by DiabloADV View Post
One concession I'll make is that the downspec single-disc brakes are not up to hard repeated use. They'll stay too hot for too long and fade out.

That's the main reason the high performance bikes (and cars) have the up-spec brakes -- repeated hard use is expected on those bikes/cars. A rider of a 250 or 300 needs to respect his limitations.

But, for a single stop...I'll take my lightweight 250 with ABS up against anybody riding anything with a similar front tire!

And if I only used them one time at the end of a ride as I approached my garage I guess I'd be a happy chap!


Back on topic, I have been after my usual Kawi dealer to get one in. They say next week perhaps and so far no idea if a demo will be available. Hmmm. I kinda know what to expect but I'd really like to get a ride on one before going all in. Might have to wait a few months to get a test on a used one for sale. It never takes long for them to hit the used market anyway.

Navin screwed with this post 10-16-2012 at 12:11 PM
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:37 PM   #128
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Since no Mfgs will sell a high-spec smaller street bike, I just have to consider building my own.

So, at the risk of another side-track, the first thing a lot of SV-650S riders did was put a GSX-R 600 or 750 front end on the bike to get the radial brakes and the upgraded suspension. The weight actually went down due to the much higher-spec components.

Has anyone tried to put a ZX-6 front end on a Ninja 250? I wouldn't be surprised if it was too much work, or if the Ninjette steering head was just too small. And because the Ninjette front end is so narrow, the weight would go up. Given the low weight of the Ninjette, however, you could loose one disk and caliper from a SS donor and still be way ahead. Anyone know anyone who knows someone who has tried it? Or maybe has used Japanese 125 or 250 cc GP components?
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #129
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I found an article on a conversion back a ways, and a GSXR shock iirc too. It wasn't too bad as I recollect. I was thinking along the same lines in fact but with KTM WP 48mm stuff, lowered to the correct length and using a SM caliper 320 rotor and full brake system.

The lesser complex idea involved mating a bigger SM rotor and caliper to the stock front end and doing a gold valve on the forks, maybe a brace too. The shock goes to the trash ASAP and something else gets swapped in, maybe a ZX6 piece. I see them selling for under $100 all the time.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:23 PM   #130
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Thanks. That gives me some hope, at least. I don't think you can use Gold Valves - you'd have to use emulators, because the EX-250's (and I assume those on the EX-300R) have damper-rod forks, not cartridge units. This has always been my biggest complaint about the bike. The Sumo brake conversion is a brilliant idea, however.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:59 PM   #131
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Emulators! Of course, its been so long since I had to deal with damper rods!

I'd probably just ship them to Race Tech and let them do their majic. At least it is a known piece with R&D all done decades ago.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:35 AM   #132
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I just bought one so I expect Suzuki to announce a GSXR350, Honda a VTR350RR or Yammy to bring a YZF400RR out by next month!

Time to go shock shopping!
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:35 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Navin View Post
I just bought one so I expect Suzuki to announce a GSXR350, Honda a VTR350RR or Yammy to bring a YZF400RR out by next month!

Time to go shock shopping!
Funny - when I saw you as the last poster in the thread again, I thought, "Jeez, buy one already ! "

Then I opened the thread.
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:13 PM   #134
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Well, they nailed this one!

Complete transformation from the 2012 250. Other than the brakes, ergos and levers they feel nothing alike.

Engine first, pulls from 4k and feels like a 4 cylinder at any RPM over 4k. Ride it all day at 6k if you want, plenty of snot for a 250 right there. The F.I. is perfection, nary a stumble, bog or hesitation. 6k feels like the torque crests and it just spools up from there.

The shifting has gone from clunky/gappy/crunchy on my kids brand new 400 mile 2012 Ninja 250 to snickery tight with total precision, clutchless shifts are smooth and solid. Gearing feels a tad low in first, great everywhere else. Clutch grabs at the very end of travel, I'll adjust.

The freewheeling slipper clutch is a new sensation. I prefer alot of engine braking so gotta learn to trust it and change my style a little.

Frame and suspension look outwardly like near carbon copies of the 12 but the bike holds a line with total stability. Suspension feels stiff of all things! Rear preload is second from softest position too. On the 250 you hit a bump and the plastics kinda cronk audibly, the 300 glides along tight and smooth.

They really could ask $1500 more for this bike over the 250 IMO. I know it'll start to wallow in the rear after a few thousand miles when the shock gets tired but out of the box it is a different bike in every way improved. Even the mopedish/scooterish engine noises/feel are gone.

I'll follow up tomorrow with how bright the lights are. I'm very impressed so far. A 350 in this bike would be wicked and the only way I can think of to improve it besides rebuildable/adjustable suspenders.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:08 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
Well, they nailed this one!

Complete transformation from the 2012 250. Other than the brakes, ergos and levers they feel nothing alike.

Engine first, pulls from 4k and feels like a 4 cylinder at any RPM over 4k. Ride it all day at 6k if you want, plenty of snot for a 250 right there. The F.I. is perfection, nary a stumble, bog or hesitation. 6k feels like the torque crests and it just spools up from there.

The shifting has gone from clunky/gappy/crunchy on my kids brand new 400 mile 2012 Ninja 250 to snickery tight with total precision, clutchless shifts are smooth and solid. Gearing feels a tad low in first, great everywhere else. Clutch grabs at the very end of travel, I'll adjust.

The freewheeling slipper clutch is a new sensation. I prefer alot of engine braking so gotta learn to trust it and change my style a little.

Frame and suspension look outwardly like near carbon copies of the 12 but the bike holds a line with total stability. Suspension feels stiff of all things! Rear preload is second from softest position too. On the 250 you hit a bump and the plastics kinda cronk audibly, the 300 glides along tight and smooth.

They really could ask $1500 more for this bike over the 250 IMO. I know it'll start to wallow in the rear after a few thousand miles when the shock gets tired but out of the box it is a different bike in every way improved. Even the mopedish/scooterish engine noises/feel are gone.

I'll follow up tomorrow with how bright the lights are. I'm very impressed so far. A 350 in this bike would be wicked and the only way I can think of to improve it besides rebuildable/adjustable suspenders.

Well.... this makes waiting for mine to arrive, that much more difficult.

Thanks so much.

terry
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