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Old 09-27-2012, 11:00 AM   #31
KCDakar
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Location: South of Kansas City a spell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
Did it snap, or did the splines go south? Did you know immediately it was the shaft, or what? Just want to know how I would diagnose that kind of failure trailside.
I started to feel a slight, very high pitch, vibration in the foot pegs. It came on very slow. I first noticed it on my first ride after getting the clutch and FD done. I marked it up to new parts. At the same time, after the tub was taken off, the bike has not been lined up as well as it was before the work. So I was fighting it a little bit more than was needed. (I will be getting this taken care of with some 8' florescent tubes soon)

Anyway, I had packed up to leave for a weekend of camping and I noticed that the vibration was a bit heavier than I remember it and that when I was tipping off the throttle I felt it even more. Kinda like the rear end going out on a car. As the car is pulling away you feel and hear nothing, but when you let off the throttle it vibrates and has a whirring noise. Roll on the throttle and it goes away.

As I was headed out of town I figured I would stop in and see my dealer about it. They said after checking it out, if I didn't do many wheelies and stoppies, I would more than likely be ok for the ride up and back. In their defense, they also said that I might not make it down the street too. It's like all things, we weigh to odds and take chances all the time. We ride. It's what we do. Right? So after all the cards are on the table, I figured that as this was coming on so slow that if I did not ride like an ass that I would be able to make the trip. I was wrong...oh so wrong...

A bit over half way there, even with my earplugs in, I started to hear the dreaded whining get loud enough that at 45 mph or slower I could hear it. This is not good. As I worked the throttle on and off slowly, it came and went with each change. Throttle up, no sound. Throttle off, sound. I was also feeling the vibration now all over. It was no longer just in the foot pegs. So I rode until I could find a spot flat & wide enough to pull over.

NOTE: Anything I say past this point that you choose to do is 100% on your own. I make NO promises that you can't get hurt doing this. I am Drain Bamaged and have no idea that what I say is even true. So you take your own life into your own hands. Good luck...

Figure out a way to tie off your front brake. I use a really nice piece of velcro and wrap it around the grip and brake lever. Works great as a parking brake. (When not in use I just wrap it around the handle bar until it's needed again.)

I got out my jack and jacked it up so the pusher was just off the ground about an inch or a bit more. Now the angle of the drive shaft housing is steep enough that you are now out of its normal range of motion, but at this point you are only looking for play in the wheel.

First you have to check that the FD is still tight. Put the bike in neutral. Grab the tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock, facing the tire from the side of the bike, and then do a slow push pull motion. Don't be an ass and push the bike off the jack. I thought long and hard about how I would Not be able to reach the front brake at this point. Remember your hand is UNDER the tire! Explain that one to your friends! Now rotate 90% and do it again. You are looking for slop. If you have slop at this point you are frucked. If not, you still might be frucked and you just don't know it yet.

The next step is the check the drive shaft splines and or the universal joints. From the same side, with the bike now in gear, rotate the tire to the right until it stops. Then s l o w l y rotate the tire to the left. You need to do this slowly and with a light touch. At the moment the tire stops, if you did it soft and slow, (did I just type that?) you then need to see how much farther it will move. So push it as far as it will go with a sharp jerk. If it moves farther, then you might have a problem. The first stop is all the parts moving together. (well sort of) The part that after you feel that first stop, as in the soft kiss of the parts coming together, is the slop that is not suppose to be there.

At this point read the NOTE: above, then proceed with caution. If you do not like to play with fire or jump out of planes or live life in the fast lane. If your heart is weak and you can't live with taking chances, do NOT do this next step...

With the bike still on the jack and in a safe place that you will not cause harm to you or others. Climb on the bike and start it up with the clutch pulled in. At an idle you should not hear anything other than your clapped out motor turning over with the aid of spark, air and fuel at all the right mixture. Now you need to s l o w l y let out your clutch with Not any throttle. At an idle you should not hear Godzilla and his friends having a rough time getting along inside your shaft housing. At the same time, remember that the housing is at its most severe angle and it can, I was told, touch the housing a bit. So the noise I think we are looking for here is louder and more severe than a slight tapping. I have to say mine was for sure.

I rode the bike the rest of the way to the camp site. I was more than halfway there anyway and if I was going to be down I figured I would just have fun no mater what. The ride to the camp site was full of what ifs and man would they find me if I was thrown into the ditch kinda stuff, but I made it and had a really needed break from the modern world.

I do not have my bike at my house. It is still on my friends trailer who came and got me. It is parked in his garage until in the morning when he will bring it to the shop. I would love to see if it still had that clanging if I put the FD at a less severe angle. Or if I touched it it would have a vibration in it that I could feel. Hummmm

So that's my story and I am sticking to it.
I will let you all know more as I find out more. Until then, Speed Safe...
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To me, the best kind of trips are the ones you planned on the way, allowed yourself to change, and maybe didn't end up where you expected. Klay

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KCDakar screwed with this post 09-28-2012 at 10:43 PM Reason: I'm a dumbass...
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:06 AM   #32
KCDakar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abenteuerfahrer View Post
Hi KC..glad they picked you up in no time and the bears weren't looking for a bite to eat as what happened to us in AK. 117k is respectable mileage although they go a lot longer or almost forever....and of course your new sintered clutch bites a bit more in efficency thus finds the slightest imperfection and then ppfffffff!! However it's just the shaft and no deep surgery is necessary unless the transmisson spines have been gored to death . If all OK..then you could get one good shaft from BeemerBoneYard for a small fee!

Cheers, miss you guys....
I just hope that it is the universal joints and not the splines...a girl can hope...
117.000 sMiles on the original clutch too and it still had more miles left in it! Well I suspect what you say about the sintered clutch and the weak link is spot on. I just hope that I don't have to replace more than the shaft at this point.
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To me, the best kind of trips are the ones you planned on the way, allowed yourself to change, and maybe didn't end up where you expected. Klay

I tell it what it wants to hear, and it does what I want it to do. I made that Motronic my bitch. Poolside


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Old 09-27-2012, 05:24 PM   #33
Square4 OP
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Miles

KC; this is very interesting and we can all learn from the issue that you are having. I am curious about of the 117,000 miles, how many of these were with the side car attached? Were the 117,000 miles tough miles or were they slow riding on the asphalt? Just trying to understand what abuses may have occurred since I know of other BMWs that have gone 200,000 miles without any drive shaft problems but none of them with a hack.

Steve
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #34
Melrone
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You know after reading all this I'm going to pull the FD out ,drain it,& send it to Cutter for rebuild.My rig is on the road more than anything..And ended up woth almost 40mpg on the way to the MOA Nationals.I was just looking at lowering the rpm at highway speeds and get ready for a trip out west next summer..Very interesting reading though...
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:28 PM   #35
davebig
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Hmmmmm !

If your drives tight and not a problem what's to rebuild ? There's only 2 bearings in the damn things.High quality gear lube (they don't like synthetics) changed every other oil change does allot for prevention. Anton Largiader from the GS list thinks that BMW had allot of assembly problems and their help were not assembling the drives correctly for a bit.DB
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:39 PM   #36
KCDakar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Square4 View Post
KC; this is very interesting and we can all learn from the issue that you are having. I am curious about of the 117,000 miles, how many of these were with the side car attached? Were the 117,000 miles tough miles or were they slow riding on the asphalt? Just trying to understand what abuses may have occurred since I know of other BMWs that have gone 200,000 miles without any drive shaft problems but none of them with a hack.

Steve
Sorry this has taken so long to get back to you.

You didn't ask for a story Square4, but that's what your going to get.

Two wheel history:

The first 27.000 are of unknown origin. The first owner is no longer with us. I bought the bike from his sister and she could only tell me he was OCD with his bike. I have to say it showed. It looked in very nice shape even with the last trips dirt still on it, as he fell sick before he had a chance to clean it up. I was told by others who rode with him that he was nice to his bike. (I am not sure I know what that really means)

I on the other hand, ride the snot out of it. On road, off road, no road. Rain, mud, snow or sludge. It is a GS after all. In 2008 I rode it to Alaska from Kansas City by way of Maine. 19,177 miles and 2.5 months later I was home and married to boot. What a ride! I toasted the FD in Tok, Alaska at around 64 thousand miles, give or take, and had a chainsaw repair man put in the new bearing. It was the only way to get me home. That one lasted waaay longer than anybody thought it would as we had no way to shim it in Tok. I think that the next FD rebuild was done around 91 thousand or so by a BMW Master Mech after finding that my oil had turned silver when I drained it. I knew that this was going to happen so it was no surprise.

Three wheel history:

The bike was going just fine, but after putting the tub on in Oct of 2010, I was finding that the Sport gearing and 32:11 FD was really hard on my bike with all that extra weight. So I started planing my next move. I had only put on about 500 miles before I was struck down by a malpractice issue and I was not sure I was ever going to get to ride again. Long story short. I found that though I was not going to be able to ride like I once did, I was NEVER going to let this stop me. Just shy of a year later on my birthday, I rode it 4 miles and managed to get that damn bike into 3rd gear! I WAS OFF!!! Ok, so now that I knew I was not going to be selling it off to pay for some of my Dr bills, I have managed to put on about 2 or 3 thousand miles on it. A lot of those in the beginning are from a friend (who has a hack) coming over and picking up my sorry ass and taking me for a ride. Anything to keep me from bitching! (That is a True friend)

I have not put on very many miles after the FD gear change to 37:11 and a sintered clutch done last winter. Maybe close to 1000 miles or a bit more. I have not kept track. I have other things going on in my life right now that are taking up my time and as long as I change my oil and do my tuneups on time and I keep finding a way to keep me out of the hospital, I feel like I have accomplished something.

I got my rig down to the shop this morning and we started to strip it down. When we got the shaft out the splines looked really good, but both universal joints have a slight flat spot at the top of both axis. This is the one spot that they stay at for 99% of the time. They really don't have much movement really until you do stoppies and jump over shit. Or hit pot holes the size a small car would fit in loaded up with all the shit one take's along on trips to Alaska. That said, that one little area really does get a lot of wear. The one closest to the transmission was a tiny bit worse than the one to the rear, if I remember right. But that does not affect the issue that I was having if all the splines are looking as good as they do. Though the shaft is going to be replaced anyway, the shaft was still able to take me down the road a bit farther if the real issue had not been in the transmission...

I am now at the point that I have to try and see what I can come up with for a fix.

I am in need of one or more of the following:

An Enduro transmission that is not clapped out and also not gold plated.

A set of innards from an Enduro transmission that are not clapped out and again, not gold plated.

My medical bills paid off would be nice.

$3,460 to buy a new Enduro transmission and be done with it and at that point, hope like hell I don't end up in the hospital anytime soon.

Or? I am open for new ideas.

I could also crack this one open and rebuild it. The issue at this point, is that I don't know how much needs to be done and as this Trannie is a Sport, it has a tall 1st gear. I can put the money into it and end up doing the same thing again down the road. Who knows... I would like to get the Enduro as the first gear is lower and all the other gear ratios are the same, so it will not effect my gas mileage. It will make it even easier to start up hill with a load. And a nice side effect is that it will be better on my clutch. And that's not a bad thing!

Oh, and as to my FD, it's still tight as a..err...sorry, my mind was wondering a bit. The 37:11 FD is one of the best things I have done to my rig bar none...

So that's my story. I read it and it sure sounds good to me. But then, I am Drain Bamaged and the shit that I think is ok makes not a lick of sense to not a single soul. So if you have a question about what I wrote please ask as I really like to hear myself type.

EDIT: The yellow print above is not totally true. The Enduro 1st and 6th gears are "short" as in my gas mileage Will be effected. That said, I will still be going with this transmission because it has a shorter 1st gear. Top end speed is over rated anyway. err...wait...
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To me, the best kind of trips are the ones you planned on the way, allowed yourself to change, and maybe didn't end up where you expected. Klay

I tell it what it wants to hear, and it does what I want it to do. I made that Motronic my bitch. Poolside


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KCDakar screwed with this post 09-30-2012 at 11:02 PM Reason: New info...
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:54 PM   #37
Mr. Cob
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Howdy All,

My $0.025 worth ( inflation dontcha know ).

When I decided to hack my R1150GS, I had Bruno up in Canada install a 37:11 gear set in the final drive, rebuild my drive-shaft and had him build one of his modified clutch disks for me. All this installed I am very happy with the way the rig pulls from a stop, pulls hills, passes with authority, gets around 34-35 mpg at an indicted 70 mph. Installing the deeper gears in the final drive in my opinion is the best bang for the buck you can get when hacking a GS.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:26 AM   #38
KCDakar
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Mr Cob, I would give you a whole penny for your info. Heck, I might even be willing to throw in 2 cents for all the stuff you have forgot! As it is way more than I will probably ever understand in my lifetime!

Could you please explain to this n00b who Bruno is and how I might find out some more about this person? What was the mod done to the driveshaft?

I could go on asking more questions, but you have more to do than answer all my pesky questions.
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To me, the best kind of trips are the ones you planned on the way, allowed yourself to change, and maybe didn't end up where you expected. Klay

I tell it what it wants to hear, and it does what I want it to do. I made that Motronic my bitch. Poolside


Save $5 on Smugmug by entering coupon code: GJBcMk1uLoZm6
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:49 AM   #39
Melrone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
If your drives tight and not a problem what's to rebuild ? There's only 2 bearings in the damn things.High quality gear lube (they don't like synthetics) changed every other oil change does allot for prevention. Anton Largiader from the GS list thinks that BMW had allot of assembly problems and their help were not assembling the drives correctly for a bit.DB
tHIS i AGREE WITH. I don't use synthetics in my bikes..Mine starting making noise so I just shut it down...Tpoo bad BMW doesn't admitt to this problemm...
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:53 AM   #40
Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by KCDakar View Post
Mr Cob, I would give you a whole penny for your info. Heck, I might even be willing to throw in 2 cents for all the stuff you have forgot! As it is way more than I will probably ever understand in my lifetime!

Could you please explain to this n00b who Bruno is and how I might find out some more about this person? What was the mod done to the driveshaft?

I could go on asking more questions, but you have more to do than answer all my pesky questions.
Howdy KCDakar,

I was given Burno's contact information from my friend on the east coast who makes his living working on Beemers. Bruno is known far and wide for his expertise on the BMW machines and how to fix the factory shall we say inconsistency. For example the stock BMW clutch disk does NOT sit on the input splines of the transmission as it should this is one of the major causes of the input shaft splines going bad, Bruno takes the splined hub out of the disk and then replaces it after he has installed a spacer so that the disk is fully supported on the input splines rather then hanging over the end of the shaft. Kinda hard to explain but EASY to see when you have everything apart. He also replaced the u-joint in my drive-shaft with stronger joints that are grease-able.

Burno can be reached here,

brunos@brunos.us

I hope this has been of some help to you.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:44 PM   #41
KCDakar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cob View Post


Burno can be reached here,

brunos@brunos.us

I hope this has been of some help to you.
It is! Thank you for your help Mr Cob.

Now all I need is money...
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To me, the best kind of trips are the ones you planned on the way, allowed yourself to change, and maybe didn't end up where you expected. Klay

I tell it what it wants to hear, and it does what I want it to do. I made that Motronic my bitch. Poolside


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Old 09-30-2012, 10:56 PM   #42
Mr. Cob
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Originally Posted by KCDakar View Post
It is! Thank you for your help Mr Cob.

Now all I need is money...
Howdy KCDakar,

Money, lots of money, or rather the lack of it, is what keeps most of us from realizing our dreams as well as fully utilizing what talent we have.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:14 PM   #43
KCDakar
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Howdy KCDakar,

Money, lots of money, or rather the lack of it, is what keeps most of us from realizing our dreams as well as fully utilizing what talent we have.
True Sir, but I am one who will never back down or give up before it is time. My friends call me a Honey Badger for a reason. I don't go around biting the heads off vipers every day, but when I do, I always do it in my dreams. As to talent, well that is a whole different can of worms...

With the help from a friend, I think I might have found a fresh factory rebuilt trannie in Germany. My friend is working out the details for me now. Keep your fingers crossed!
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To me, the best kind of trips are the ones you planned on the way, allowed yourself to change, and maybe didn't end up where you expected. Klay

I tell it what it wants to hear, and it does what I want it to do. I made that Motronic my bitch. Poolside


Save $5 on Smugmug by entering coupon code: GJBcMk1uLoZm6
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:57 PM   #44
Square4 OP
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KCDakar; It sounds like the mileage and abuse is not related to having a sidecar on your bike. It sounds like you are one that they describe as riding a rig like you stole it.

I agree with you that putting in the lower geared final drive (3.2 in my case with my adventure tranny) is one of the better things that I have done to the rig. I would rank this right up there with having a tilt control to trim the rig when riding and reduced trail for easier steering. It would probably top this list but overall I don't think it could get much better than having all of them. So now what is next?

Steve
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:40 PM   #45
twintwin
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Originally Posted by Square4 View Post
So now what is next?
The same question that I was asking me one year ago, and I came to this answer: L.L., as I was reaching the limit of the front MC tire under braking and handling in the curves, especially when it was raining.

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