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Old 06-02-2010, 03:58 AM   #1
A_Vasiliev OP
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Yamaha YSR 50: Mini Madness!

Yo guys.

I realize this is not a scooter, but it is a small-displacement, small-sized, street-legal motorcycle, so I suppose this is the best place to post.

I recently came across a guy selling a Yamaha YSR 50 in the same county as me. Called him up, he said the crank is bad and the bearings need to be replaced, possibly some other issues worked out. Who knows what's in there. It will, he claims, fire up fine, but you wouldn't want to run it in the shape it's in. He's asking around 500 bucks for the whole bike, which is reasonable for the country we're in (Russia), and he said we can discuss lowering the price if I come cash in hand.

Ordering genuine parts through a Yamaha dealer will be exorbitant and will probably take half a year to arrive thanks to our wonderfully Stone Age postal/customs system, so I got to thinking what other engines I can swap into it.

One choice is the ZiD (Zavod imeni Degteryeva) Pilot 50 engine, an old Russian moped. 2-stroke, 50cc's, 3-speed transmission. About half the horsepower of the stock Yama mill, but what can you expect from a motor built in a factory that typically builds light machine guns? The sizes are pretty similar and I see nothing that would hinder sticking it in there. Plus the engines are cheap and plentiful, and you can buy two and experiment with tuning and modding for power. Lots of info on this in the Russian internets.

Another idea I had was Lifan engines. Maybe a 200cc vertical cylinder, or one of those 125cc horizontals... so I'm asking you guys, what do you think? Anyone with experience in this field, sound off and give me your two cents.

Anything to say about engine swaps in general? I want to refrain from cutting the stock frame and welding, so assuming the cradle doesn't need to be enlarged (if the engine fits fine), would it be ok to just fab up some simple mounting plates, or adaptors from the stock mounts to the new engine? Another idea I had was to extend the swingarm a little bit (less wheelie-prone, would look a little better than with the stock setup, where the wheel is nearly under the seat).

Link to the YSR 50: http://moto.auto.ru/motorcycle/used/..._32078481.html

Photos for comparison:


Stock YSR motor


Couldn't find a decent photo of the ZiD engine alone, so here's a shot of the whole moped. Still, you can see the similarities in construction.

Stock YSR50, naked view.



And last but not least, a photo of a YSR50 with a Yamaha 250 four-stroke in it. Modified cradle but hey, it seems to fit.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Sheeeeyit. Just realized this should go in "The Garage".
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:57 AM   #2
ernest t bass
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Back in the day, I had one of those with a 60cc kit on it. 10 cc made a huge difference.
Either totally rebuild the engine you have and kit it out as much as possible,
or shoehorn in as much cc's as possible.
In original condition the ysr50 only goes 38 mph, kinda slow.

You don't have much room in that chassis for much more engine.
I'd try to get a water cooled YZ 80 motor, that would make it fast.

Keep us updated.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #3
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Back in the day, I had one of those with a 60cc kit on it. 10 cc made a huge difference.
Either totally rebuild the engine you have and kit it out as much as possible,
or shoehorn in as much cc's as possible.
YZ80 engine is probably out of the question. While a watercooler would be trick and the bike would be a beast with the kind of powerband the YZ has, it would be simply too expensive for me to acquire an engine like that here.

It's interesting to me how a CZ 125 engine would fit in there. On the 916 engine, the chaindrive and kickstart are on the correct side for a swap into this chassis.

The most likely candidate would be the ZiD engine. Lots of bore kits, cylinders, pistons, and suchlike floating around the ru-net, and plenty of information as far as tuning. Much cheaper as well. Probably no faster than it was stock, although you never know, people say they get their modified ZiD's up to 50-55 mph with no problems...

The stock engine will be kept and possibly fixed, if I can figure out exactly what it needs and order it.

Hmm. Time to go take a bus ride. Possibly tomorrow, if nothing else comes up. I'll take lots of photos.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:24 AM   #4
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this is gonna be a way freakin' cool thread.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:58 AM   #5
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I can't really help, but there have been all kinds of nutty engine conversions done with the YSR. A guy named Tony Tice put a YZ400F (with 426 piston) 4-stroke MX motor in one.
http://www.ciaysr.com/rp/tt/tt/ysrs/yz426f/
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:09 PM   #6
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ZID looks about the right size and the drive chain is on the right side so maybe not the perfect candidate, but not so bad. I would start with that given their ubiquity in Russia.

I can't think of any Chinese clone engine that would be better. A clone DRZ/KLX 110 motor would be marginally (or more) faster, but the fabrication would be more troublesome I suspect. I'd do the ZID without any irreversible mods to the frame and look for a YZ 80 mill or CZ motocross motor down the line.

Good luck. In any case it'll be much faster than my DKW!
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorn240
ZID looks about the right size and the drive chain is on the right side so maybe not the perfect candidate, but not so bad. I would start with that given their ubiquity in Russia.

I can't think of any Chinese clone engine that would be better. A clone DRZ/KLX 110 motor would be marginally (or more) faster, but the fabrication would be more troublesome I suspect. I'd do the ZID without any irreversible mods to the frame and look for a YZ 80 mill or CZ motocross motor down the line.
The ZID is probably the way I'm going, if the stock engine requires too much work to fix upon purchase. The guy says the crank possibly needs to be changed, I'm hoping it just needs new little end and possibly crank bearings, as I really don't want to split the crank and I really really don't wanna order a new one through Yamaha of Japan. I need both my kidneys.

The CZ motor is something I thought of, but they're pretty expensive for a good-condition one, which is why I'm sorta hesitant.

As far as Chinese clones go, how about the XR200 clone? If someone managed a Yamaha 250, and that other guy managed a YZ400F, and there have been multiple YSF-200 (Blaster quad) engine swaps, I think a Lifan 200 might fit. It looks to me like the cradle is bolted onto the main frame at the back near the footpegs and the front near the steering stem, if that's the case, then it would be easy to fab up a new cradle without butchering the frame in the process. The main thing would be to be sure that the tank still fits (a 200 engine will protrude from the upper frame a little bit, as seen on the Yamaha 250 swap in my original post). Aside from that, as far as I can see, smooth sailing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdsp
I can't really help, but there have been all kinds of nutty engine conversions done with the YSR. A guy named Tony Tice put a YZ400F (with 426 piston) 4-stroke MX motor in one.
http://www.ciaysr.com/rp/tt/tt/ysrs/yz426f/
Oh yeah, saw that one. Saw one with a CR500 two-stroke out of a dirt bike. THAT looked scary as shit.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:10 AM   #8
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Update: Got on the YSR50.com forums. People are saying that an XR100 motor would be a bolt-in swap, just about. Guess my worries that a four-stroke with a taller head wouldn't fit were baseless. Any info on XR100 copies from Lifan? Do they make something like that?

I probably won't have time to go check the mini out today, but tomorrow seems like a sure thing. We'll see.

Edit: http://www.hooperimports.com/product...f_id=100cc-4Mi That sucker seems to be exactly what I'm looking for. The price doesn't make me too happy, it'll be around 20-25 thousand rubles here, with any luck, and that's almost double the price I'm paying for the whole YSR, and, for the sake of comparison, a ZiD 50 engine can be had for 3 to 5 thousand rubles.

Ah well, we'll burn that bridge when we get to it. Maybe the Yammi engine can be resurrected without expensive parts.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:13 AM   #9
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I don't know why buying a Lifan would be such a big hassle, you're a lot closer to China for that matter, and any Lifan dealers. But why bother, the Lifan conversion, especially the vertical cylinder one will take major adaptation.

Can you weld, skillfully?

The bolt pattern on the YZR looks almost exactly like the two rear bolt mounts on the rotary valve cased horizontal cylindered Yamaha's of the '60~'70's. That opens up some possible retro fits.

Yamaha sells a 100 cc "agricultural" ( I assume it's used by herders and such, ) DS type bike in Mongolia, I can only assume they also sell these in far Eastern Russia and possibly Kahzakstan. More possibilities.

The ZID "moped" looks pretty damn cool to me, frankly I'd love to own one. If they're anywhere near as utilitarian and reliable as a Ural thay can't be all that bad. We have nothing that cheap and available in the States.

What about your pitbike?

Frankly putting such a big engine into a small bike sounds like a bad idea, 420 chains and sprokets are really only good for about 100 cc bikes. Similarly the bearings in the wheels, etc.

$400 for a broken cranked Yamaha that's the heart of the engine and it makes the rest of the bike pretty worthless costwise. I suprized he's asking so much.

Just some thoughts from someone who's converted an old bike with a new engine.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:24 AM   #10
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$400 for a broken cranked Yamaha that's the heart of the engine and it makes the rest of the bike pretty worthless costwise. I suprized he's asking so much.
Well, I suppose I understand you. But you gotta remember the inflated motor vehicle market here. The import tariffs on motor vehicles are so high that people will happily pay 4 thousand dollars for a well-used 250 enduro bike from the mid-90's (taken from moto-auctions in Japan). New bikes are approximately twice the price, sometimes more, of their European and American equivalents, for example the dealership I worked at this summer had a 2008 Suzuki King Quad 400 with straight axle rear end for 354,000 rubles. Going by the current exchange rate, that is about $12,000. Compare that with the MSRP of $5649 as per Suzuki.

To be honest, this sort of thing doesn't even surprise me anymore. I've just gotten used to it.

I'm willing to spend the money just to have my hands on something that will be fun to play around on, and, even better, I will have fun building and modifying something. It feels good to make something yourself. I guess that's my thinking on this.

Compounding the issue is the fact that back when I lived in Alaska, I had a dirt bike, 2 or more snowmobiles at any one time, a quad, a couple old Honda trikes, and god knows what else in my backyard. After the move to Russia, I'm on my third year of a whole lotta nothing. My hands are just itching to twist a throttle and make loud noises, burning gas in the process.
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:25 AM   #11
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Going to go look at the YSR right now. I wish I could take photos, but my phone screen died and I have no regular camera. I will attempt to take cell phone shots, but I have no idea how they'll turn out.

Wish me luck.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:32 PM   #12
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Went to look at it.

Everything is kinda grim, but I'll start from the beginning...

The engine. The engine was brought over from Japan without a piston in it. The cylinder sleeve was pressed out, a new sleeve was made to fit a common 2-stroke cultivator piston. Added to that was a handmade ignition system. The oil injector apparently malfunctioned and it seized the engine up pretty nicely. Then, while the owner was attempting to bore out the stock rod to accept a more common bearing for the big end, he damaged the rod. So as it sits, it needs a new cylinder, new rod, new bearings all around, possibly a different ignition and god knows what is going on in the transmission.

The frame, though, is in pretty good shape. Certainly not worth the money I'm paying for it, but that's a loss I'm willing to accept. The rear plastics are totally homemade, with a weird seat pan. I can modify that, I suppose, to be more cafe-racer. The front plastic is a little damaged and someone patched it with a piece of metal, but it's not too noticeable, and will be invisible after a good coat of paint and some body filler. The front brakes need to be bled and filled up, rear brakes work. Everything, of course, will be disassembled, cleaned up, greased, checked for cracks, some parts will be painted, some will be polished, etc.

Tomorrow a friend and I are going to the local swap meet to look for some donor engines. Hopefully we'll find something. I'm very interested in a 100-150cc chinese 4-stroke Honda copy. Making a custom 2-stroke pipe is a little out of my abilities, and nobody that I know is a good enough welder to do it. Although, if push comes to shove, I'm sure I'll manage something or another.

Sorry, no photos. The bike (if you can call it that) should be in my garage on Wednesday or Thursday. I'll be sure to take lots of photos then.

Wish me luck tomorrow.
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Old 06-09-2010, 02:20 AM   #13
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Bought the YSR. It's sitting in a warehouse just outside town right now, tomorrow I will be transporting it to my garage.

Posted up some want ads on some forums, got an answer today. Someone is selling a freshly rebuilt tuner ZiD engine. 60cc displacement, Honda Dio-34 piston, balanced crank, little bit of porting work. Handbuilt expansion pipe made for the engine. It's right in my price range as well. I told them to hold onto it for me, I will try to scrape up the cash to go snag it next week, if possible.

On the bodywork and frame side of things, I have to rebuild or at least flush the front brake, as it's not working, need to strip down the bike to bare parts and start prepping for paint. I'm thinking of using epoxy paint for appliances out of the can, as I've heard that it's very durable stuff. Professional auto paint is out of my price range. The bodywork is homemade in the back, with a homemade seat as well. I will need to tear it apart and see what can be done with it. I also want to try my hand at making some bodywork out of fiberglass, maybe with a thin steel base to lay the glass onto. The front plastic was broken and cut into two halves, then patched with aluminum down the middle. It's also cracked in a few spots. All this will need to be repaired.
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Old 06-10-2010, 06:55 AM   #14
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Update: Moved the bike to a friend's garage, got most of the stuff stripped off it today without getting my hands too dirty, tomorrow I will be going more in-depth. All the home-made crap is getting scrapped, I will definetely be looking for fiberglass cloth and resin to make myself a new tailpiece and possibly making myself a seat to go along with it, plenty of info on that stuff floating around the forums here.

On the engine side of things - found a guy in Moscow selling a Yamaha YBR 125 motor. A fairly mild 4-stroke beginner's bike, but in the small YSR chassis it should prove to be pretty exciting, at the very least. I have to figure out how much he wants for it and how to scrape up that amount of money. Anybody wanna donate? I'll put your name on the tank as a gesture of gratitude

Definetely going for a streetfighter/ratfighter look on this bike. Small tailpiece, small seat, big tank, etc.



I find this look very appealing, I don't know why.
Stay tuned, I hope to have photos soon. Dad took the camera with him on his business trip, so...
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:57 AM   #15
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Pics of the project, finally

Long time, no post! Here are some photos I took yesterday, with comments.


The bare frame from the left


And from the right


With tank (flat blacked by yours truly)


Bars with a hand on them for perspective. The left side is bent, apparently the bike got dumped a few times.


With fairing mounted.


Apparently the fairing had seen better days. It has been repaired by cutting out the middle section and replacing it with aluminum plates.


And a shot showng my sunburnt chest.
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