Fun With Carbon Fiber

[adventurerik]

Nice job looks great. Hope the heat doesnt become a issue.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by therivermonster

I think that it looks pretty good.


I rode the usual 25 miles to work, and when I pulled in, all seemed well. But after being stopped for a few minutes it really started to heat up. The screws especially got really hot. The area up close to the seat really heated up and became plyable. The temp outside was probably around 45 or so, so I can't imagine that on a hot day with bags on the bike, chugging along on dirt roads and trails that it would do much better.

I'll see how it goes over the next week or so with the part and report back, but I might have to go with a high temp epoxy for this application.

Watch for areas around the mounting that turns brown. That is the heat stress signature of epoxy. You can heat cycle it many times over, as long as you dont reach the threshold. When/if you see a brown color impermiate out from around the bolts, it will just be a matter of time. Take a IR thermometer with you, and next time you stop, and find it pliable, shoot it. As long as you are 200 deg.F or less the HP will cycle fine...... The 1618 will hold to 250 deg.....and the HTE.....400+. Looks good amigo. Now, take your time to write down the ingredients, and steps you did to make this very acceptable piece....in your note book, that you keep next to the refrigerator.... And from here on out.....only change one thing at a time, so you can identify, what your doing. As you change with other epoxys, everything will change, so it is important to have said journal....... and while you write..... you conveniently open the door, and chill with a cold one...... Serves as a calmerdownremidy.....

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by Twin-shocker

The easy way to make any small cosmetic parts is to use compression moulding, with 2 piece mould tools. Not viable for one offs really though, and for this its probably best to stay with contact moulding.

I'm getting the hang of contact molding, but I'll try something a little different in a post or two down...

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by adventurerik

Nice job looks great. Hope the heat doesnt become a issue.

Me too. It gets a lot hotten then I thought it did. I was thinking about the heat a little, and I bet that the original aluminum shroud acted as a heat sink disipating a lot of the heat from the muffler.

Originally Posted by ebrabaek

Watch for areas around the mounting that turns brown. That is the heat stress signature of epoxy. You can heat cycle it many times over, as long as you dont reach the threshold. When/if you see a brown color impermiate out from around the bolts, it will just be a matter of time. Take a IR thermometer with you, and next time you stop, and find it pliable, shoot it. As long as you are 200 deg.F or less the HP will cycle fine...... The 1618 will hold to 250 deg.....and the HTE.....400+. Looks good amigo. Now, take your time to write down the ingredients, and steps you did to make this very acceptable piece....in your note book, that you keep next to the refrigerator.... And from here on out.....only change one thing at a time, so you can identify, what your doing. As you change with other epoxys, everything will change, so it is important to have said journal....... and while you write..... you conveniently open the door, and chill with a cold one...... Serves as a calmerdownremidy.....

Thanks, earling!! I'll look for signs of the carbon browning.

I just got back from visiting Fiberglass Supply. They had a infusion going on and right next to the table was a notebook with all the notes from the layup. I never really gave keeping a notebook much thought, but it makes sense and I'll use one going forward.

The beak extension looks great btw...

[therivermonster]

I have been trying to think of ways that I can make my layups a little better, and I figured why not try gravity.

Remember that sand in the pictures earlier? Well here it is drying under the heat lamp...


I decided to make some moldable sand to package in bags to use to weight the layup. The ingrediants for the mixture are sand from the beach (free), canola oil, and corn starch. A big aluminum baking pan and some gloves worked well too...


Here is a little video showing the process of making the sand mixture and a layup using the bags at the end...


After the layup was complete and the sand bags were added, this is what the stack looked like...


I'll report back about how this worked when I pop the part from the mold.

[P B G]

Kinda neat,

a technique used in waterski manufacture is the pressure bladder, same mold, bag then you place it in a confined space, like under a shelf, and you attach an air bladder to pressure.....

Like an old tire inner tube, and inflate it against your part.

Often simpler than drawing a vacuum for the effect.

[100mpg]

That piece looks as good as any piece you would find in a store! Well done.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by P B G

Kinda neat,

a technique used in waterski manufacture is the pressure bladder, same mold, bag then you place it in a confined space, like under a shelf, and you attach an air bladder to pressure.....

Like an old tire inner tube, and inflate it against your part.

Often simpler than drawing a vacuum for the effect.

Very interesting. It's amazing how many options there are out there to solve problems in the composites world. Ya just have to put your mind to it I guess.

It's looking like one problem that I am having with my technique is that excess resin is being forced out of the part up to the surface, but is pooling under the plastic sheet. It looks really ugly.

Originally Posted by 100mpg

That piece looks as good as any piece you would find in a store! Well done.

Thanks, 100!! I don't think that it looks as good as you think in person, but it will after I sand it a little and put the clear on it.

[ebrabaek]

I see a bright future for you in the composite world. I do not recall ever seeing so much ingenuity, in anyone I helped getting started. You will morph into a fine Garage Gansta with the SCDMT.....( Sand Conformity Device Moulding Technique)....
Fantastic......... Not kidding here.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by therivermonster

It's looking like one problem that I am having with my technique is that excess resin is being forced out of the part up to the surface, but is pooling under the plastic sheet. It looks really ugly.



.

It is hard to see in the vid, due to the fast Forward...... But I think it is safe to say that you are high on resin....perhaps even reversed ( ratio's) It is a very common thing to see with people that are new to this..... But a somewhat easy one to correct. Simply when you lay each layer down wet.... use your thumb, and other fingers to squeegee out more resin. You know your pressing too hard, when you are disturbing the fibers, and it it moving. Massage excess resin out to the side, so it can drip off. You want better control.....get a 2 inch roller ( disposable), as it will soak up excess resin.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by ebrabaek

I see a bright future for you in the composite world. I do not recall ever seeing so much ingenuity, in anyone I helped getting started. You will morph into a fine Garage Gansta with the SCDMT.....( Sand Conformity Device Moulding Technique)....
Fantastic......... Not kidding here.

Well thank you, sir!!

It actually didn't work as well as I thought it would have in this mold due to having to use two bags. The small space between the two bags of sand allowed a space for resin to be forced into creating a mountain range (of sorts) or resin to form. The weight really pressed excess resin up to the surface.

My thoughts on the sand molding are as follows at this point: I think that the sand bags would work great for holding fabric down when adding core material like earling's famous cardboard and such. I'm sure that it would work well on other molds as well, but for this layup it didn't work as well as I hoped. Really, I think that the mold was a bit small for the bags, and the bags didn't conform as well as I hoped they would. Also, placing the plastic sheet over the layup has created an terrible surface and will require a lot of sanding.

I have high hopes for using sand to help fabric stay in place during molding, however it looks like this technique will take some development.

I love it!! Nothin' but fun, kids!!

[DaBit]

I have used both a pressure bladder and sand in experiments, so you are not the first :)

The sand works fine, but you need to put some thin kitchen foil on the laminate, and put the sand on directly. Then weight down the sand with, uhm, whatever.

the pressure bladder, well, not an easy method if you really want to exert some pressure. A very strong enclosure is needed. But a regular kids balloon works OK to keep the fabric in shape. But sand is easier.

[ebrabaek]

Originally Posted by therivermonster

Well thank you, sir!!

It actually didn't work as well as I thought it would have in this mold due to having to use two bags. The small space between the two bags of sand allowed a space for resin to be forced into creating a mountain range (of sorts) or resin to form. The weight really pressed excess resin up to the surface.

My thoughts on the sand molding are as follows at this point: I think that the sand bags would work great for holding fabric down when adding core material like earling's famous cardboard and such. I'm sure that it would work well on other molds as well, but for this layup it didn't work as well as I hoped. Really, I think that the mold was a bit small for the bags, and the bags didn't conform as well as I hoped they would. Also, placing the plastic sheet over the layup has created an terrible surface and will require a lot of sanding.

I have high hopes for using sand to help fabric stay in place during molding, however it looks like this technique will take some development.

I love it!! Nothin' but fun, kids!!

You will find that this works fantastic with the correct amount of resin to fabric ratios........ As said before, the single most difficult thing for me.....and other teachers for that matter, is to convey the correct fiber to resin ratio. Most, if not all, thinks that that is way too little resin. You will know you have got it down, when you lay down each layer, and the resin that you push through the fabric with your fingers, just slightly saturates the fabric, without any pooling.

[therivermonster]

Originally Posted by ebrabaek

You will find that this works fantastic with the correct amount of resin to fabric ratios........ As said before, the single most difficult thing for me.....and other teachers for that matter, is to convey the correct fiber to resin ratio. Most, if not all, thinks that that is way too little resin. You will know you have got it down, when you lay down each layer, and the resin that you push through the fabric with your fingers, just slightly saturates the fabric, without any pooling.

I do think that it will work, but the application needs to be adjusted a little I think. I do also need to work on my resin ratios as well. I'll do some more work with my fingers next time I'm laying up in the female mold...

[therivermonster]

ood morning, everyone!!

I know that it has been a few days since I have posted any updates on our work, but I have a good excuse. First, my daughters third birthday party is coming up. I do a little video for her every year and I've been putting this one off due to the composites work. I started it a few days ago, and it'll be a few more before it's done.

Also, another project that is two years in the making is coming to a close and is requiring a little more attention then it has in the recent past.

I purchased a couple of beat up high security safes, with the intent on fixing both of them up and selling one to cover the costs of the other. Zoomzu here on ADV has been doing a bunch of prep and paint work on them and now that the painting is done, it's time to put them back together and apply the finishing touches.

Here is a little video outlining some of the work...


So hang out, grab a beer or a cup of coffee and I'll be back before you know it. If you need to get your CF fix in the mean time, check out Earling's thread about the new CF beak that he is making for his F800.