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Old 09-26-2012, 10:22 AM   #181
hooliken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
That's not saying I'm not going to point out you could have tried doing what she was asking you to do.
Duly noted sir. And, after a couple of confrontations, I did everything textbook for the good of the class.

Being that this took place many, many years ago, I will be the first to admit that, looking back on it now, I probably could of handled the situation better than I did. I have always been somewhat of a smartass, and remain one to this day, ask the Mrs., she will tell you.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:25 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
..
On a related note, in the US, bicycles typically have the rear brake operated by the right hand, the opposite of most other countries and opposite of a motorcycle. It may be a small benefit to someone learning to ride if they have a bicycle set up with a right-hand front brake.
I always swap out the brake sides on my bicycles so I don't panic stop and just pull the clutch!

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:26 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
IMHO, done RIGHT, there's no reason a BRC can't be the first exposure to motorcycles.
+1

The tools are there.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:29 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
I always swap out the brake sides on my bicycles so I don't panic stop and just pull the clutch!

Jim
I too swap over the brakes on my bicycles so the front brake is operated with my right hand but I definitely don't confuse the rear brake and clutch.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:31 AM   #185
JimVonBaden
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
I too swap over the brakes on my bicycles so the front brake is operated with my right hand but I definitely don't confuse the rear brake and clutch.
Me either, though it wouldn't matter in a panic so long as I am hitting the pedal too!

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:55 AM   #186
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Hire a coach one-on-one

Dear Mrs6gun - I'm on your side. Since hubby doesn't want to do the teaching (I undersand completely why), try and track down an instructor who might be willing to be hired one-on-one for you. It'll cost more but one-on-one works much better than group motorcycle instruction.

As an example, my youngest son was a very good road racer. As an amatuer he was nearly undefeated. That all changed when he bumped up to pro. It wasn't long before he knew he needed advanced help. We hired Eric Wood one-on-one for two days. That was a major turning point and his speed advanced sharply. To this day he reviews his notes from those two days with Eric. One-on-one allows the instructor to address your specific issues. It's really the best way to learn.

I like the idea of you investing in a small dual sport motorcycle and poking around on that too, but maybe you do both.

As a sidebar, I've been around motorcycles and motorcycle racing my whole life. The sport is loaded with flakes and jerks, so whether it is hiring a motor builder or an riding instructor, you're going to run into a bad apple more than once or twice.

Back in the early 70's I worked at Grand Prix Cycles while attending college. It wasn't uncommon for a 16 year old with his Mom in tow to walk into my showroom for a Kawasaki H1 equipped with expansion chambers. I'd sell them the bike and then have to teach junior how to ride it in the parking lot. It was always very sketchy. Once junior could successfully launch the bike and stop it on my command, I went to the back room and hid until they were gone...
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:00 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by glasswave View Post
OTH, where are these folks that need more nurturing to go? It seems that the msf could use a pre brc course.
Here in VA, we have a program called Jump Start. This is a 3-hour pre-BRC course that anyone who's never sat a bike before could take if they want. This class gives them the foundation for the controls and an introduction to the friction zone and braking.

Quote:
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Unfortunately it literally takes a month of weekends to get certified, there are no other ways in VA, and then you are on the hook for at least one weekend a month for the season, often more. That is a tough call for people with families, or with work commitmitment.
The initial 4 weekend commitment was a bit rough, but I'm not on the hook for anything after the fact... it's strongly suggested that I coach my minimum required classes to keep my certification. The only other requirement is that I complete two 4-hour professional development workshops during the year. But if I don't get those done, I just go to an 8-hour remedial training class and I'm re-certified.

I have a family. I have a FT job. My son races. My husband works every other weekend. But those students make each coaching weekend interesting in one way or another.

I've had a "bad" student or two who really pushed my buttons... but I've had a hell of a lot of those wonderful students who, regardless of the outcome of the skills eval, hugged me and thanked me for a fun-filled weekend. And those are the ones that make it all worthwhile.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:10 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
As a sidebar, I've been around motorcycles and motorcycle racing my whole life. The sport is loaded with flakes and jerks,
Brother, you said a mouthful there!
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:13 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by SxyRdr View Post
I've had a "bad" student or two who really pushed my buttons...
It always amazed me to run into a douchebag on the range. I always thought, "dude! We're talking about motorcycles. How bad can it be?"
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:24 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Personally, if I had an instructor say "that ass is a little hot for leathers" to a student
fixt.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by SxyRdr View Post
Here in VA, we have a program called Jump Start. This is a 3-hour pre-BRC course that anyone who's never sat a bike before could take if they want. This class gives them the foundation for the controls and an introduction to the friction zone and braking.
Very interesting! How much of that is classroom, how much is sitting on a bike? Do the bikes get started at all?
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:30 AM   #192
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Very interesting! How much of that is classroom, how much is sitting on a bike? Do the bikes get started at all?
From what I've seen, none of it is classroom. It is 3 hours on the range and yes, they start the bikes. They are riding around in first gear by the end of the 3 hours.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:45 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
Look. I know the MSF is a good thing.

I just think it's Bullshit that they take money from people with zero experience, then boot 'em in the first hour or two of the riding part.

If a customer calls to sign up and says they have zero experience, they should be turned away. If they say they want to take the BRC "to learn how to ride", they should be turned away.

I've seen/heard enough stories, and experienced one myself, to know that BRC is not for beginners, and beginners should be advised to learn how to ride, then come back for the BRC.

I'm glad they don't do that. Being in the military I'm required to have the course before I can ride on the street. When I went to the BRC all I knew about bikes was where the controls are located. I had never ridden one; the closest I had been to riding a motorcycle was a mountain bike. I thought it was a good course and by the end of the two days I was pretty happy with what I learned. It really is a Basic course. They are teaching you the basic fundamentals of riding a motorcycle. You have to start somewhere so you might as well start with the basics and learn how to do them properly the first time. I would have been pissed if they had turned me away and told me to go get experience. That's what the experienced riders course is for.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:59 AM   #194
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the MSF course has morphed into just a drive thru certificate to get your license so you dont have to suffer the DMV performance test and get a break on insurance

the instructor should have done his job or be fired

I dont mind doing the actual instruction , ive done it a few times with my son and girlfriends
there is some good stuff that can be taught and some that cant
especially about street survival, everything from never braking hard in the oily center of a lane, to avoiding the trash triangle in the middle of intersections could save a lot of rookies some pain,

maybe you should complain to the AMA, isnt the AMA sponsor of the MSF ? this instructor was a slacker
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:44 PM   #195
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the MSF course has morphed into just a drive thru certificate to get your license so you dont have to suffer the DMV performance test and get a break on insurance
Please provide a summary of your experience with MSF and your understanding of the history of development and delivery of MSF training in relation to the above statement. ...or was this just a troll?

Quote:
the instructor should have done his job or be fired

I dont mind doing the actual instruction , ive done it a few times with my son and girlfriends
there is some good stuff that can be taught and some that cant
especially about street survival, everything from never braking hard in the oily center of a lane, to avoiding the trash triangle in the middle of intersections could save a lot of rookies some pain,
Funny, I thought stuff just like that WAS covered in the BRC in some considerable detail. Maybe I misunderstood something. Please elaborate.

Quote:
maybe you should complain to the AMA, isnt the AMA sponsor of the MSF ? this instructor was a slacker
Possibly! Perhaps you'd like to sign up as a ridercoach and we can hear how you handle less experienced students.
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