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Old 09-23-2012, 06:59 PM   #76
dbuzz
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Originally Posted by duck View Post
I'm pretty sure that my instructor was an asshole.

(Self-taught.)
somehow this vid seems appropriate at this point

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Old 09-23-2012, 07:14 PM   #77
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When I took my MSF class it was a great experience for me. But, truth be told, one of the instructors treated the women different. One woman was there because she wanted to get a scooter. Not even a scooter that needed to be licensed. She was excited to learn to ride and very attentive. But that instructor was far less patient with her than with others. He certainly addressed me differently. In fact, he was pretty ornery to the point that the woman was in tears at one point (not in front of him, thankfully) She failed the practical at the end. Not sure by how much, but couldn't have been much. I watched everybody take their practicals. Some of the gray area scoring didn't seem to go her way. I have no idea if she tried to get her license again - I hope so, but doubt it given her MSF experience.

Another woman was also treated poorly, although she clearly wasn't ready for the road. But she didn't need to be yelled at like a drill sergeant either.

I don't think there's really a solution other than complaining to the management, for whatever that's worth. Some people are just assholes and sometimes you just need to work your way around them.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
So what do you call it when someone quits or crashes for a second time or is obviously a menace to themselves and everyone around them and needs to be made aware of that fact?

In the first few, critical, exercises, you can often give the rest of the class a break while you do some one-on-one coaching. However, you can't let the student move on to the next exercise until they have "got it" and you can't keep the entire class for hours and hours. It's also counter-productive to keep coaching someone if they are overtired and overheated which is often the case.

You have got a lot more stamina than me and 90% of my students if you think you could run till 8pm on a Louisiana summer day.
I'll play.

I've had students total motorcycles. Crash into hard obstacles...100m off the range. Seen them crash into cars...in a parking lot adjacent to the range. I've called an ambulance a few times. Those riders...didn't return based on their own decision.

I've seen riders drop their moto...2, 3, 20 times. Each time, me (or one of my other RC's) were there to help them up and get them riding again. For sure, some of them ran WAAAAAY wide in the corners. I blew my whistle, got the rest of the riders stopped and got the hapless rider back onto the range....'cause you know, I was there to help folks learn BASIC motorcycle skills.

Many of the other students got frustrated the the course was held up by "that guy". Well, guess what?! "That Guy" is gonna be out there, no matter what. Maybe, just maybe, tis' better to learn how to deal with "that guy" on a range vs. out in traffic? As for "that guy"...they may not score the minimum to get an MSF card...but, if they stick it out to the end...they may not ever ride a motorcycle....BUT, I GUARANTEE you, they will be a better car driver.

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Old 09-23-2012, 07:26 PM   #79
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Thanks Butters for your input. You are correct. Also, thanks to all others who had positive advice to give me. I have chosen to ignore the ones who had negative things to say to me. My perception is that I had a bad experience and the damage is done. I will be reporting my experience to MSF. They can do with it what they wish. As for me, I am moving on and will get a bike and learn on my own at my pace. I am done with this thread. Enough said.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:56 PM   #80
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Dolomoto--We are clearly different because I've sent a few students home (maybe 5 in 10 years)...and you've sent them home in ambulances (I've never had to call emergency services).

So...How does a ride home in the ambulance NOT count against the 100% success rate?
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Capt Crash screwed with this post 09-23-2012 at 08:10 PM
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:10 PM   #81
dolomoto
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Originally Posted by Capt Crash View Post
Dolomoto--We are clearly different because I've sent a few students home (maybe 5 in 10 year)...and you've sent them home in ambulances (I've never had to call emergency services).

So...doe's ride home alive in the ambulance NOT count against the 100% success rate?
Ah, nicely played.

The OP has said she is satisfied, and moving on.

If folks would like to debate the dangers of taking an MSF course....I'm up for it...on another thread.

Good on the OP for realizing that the MSF training is "one size fits all" but is not best for all.

Fair weather and smooth roads to all riders. Ride Often and minimize your Risks!
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:14 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mrs6gun View Post
Also, thanks to all others who had positive advice to give me. I have chosen to ignore the ones who had negative things to say to me.
Good. There's nothing to learn from negative comments or those you disagree with.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:17 PM   #83
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Dolomoto--a student leaving in an ambulance is not a success.
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Capt Crash screwed with this post 09-23-2012 at 08:45 PM Reason: walking it back.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:21 PM   #84
dbuzz
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Originally Posted by Mrs6gun View Post
Thanks Butters for your input. You are correct. Also, thanks to all others who had positive advice to give me. I have chosen to ignore the ones who had negative things to say to me. My perception is that I had a bad experience and the damage is done. I will be reporting my experience to MSF. They can do with it what they wish. As for me, I am moving on and will get a bike and learn on my own at my pace. I am done with this thread. Enough said.
Unfortunately if you always ignore negative criticisms you may not ever learn what is needed to be learnt.

I am very puzzled that you say the instructor was a 'jerk' but have not detailed what exactly made this person a 'jerk'. That leaves the whole business open to some rather varied interpretations. Did the instructor shout at you? Did they say "you are stupid"? did they have to say numerous times "no... do it this way"?

You need to define what exactly you mean by 'bad experience' otherwise it just sounds like sour grapes
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #85
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Well, this was a fun thread.




:ba by


did I leave anything out???
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:42 PM   #86
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It sounded a lot like my MSF class. I had been riding for a long time, but had a deadline at the DMV, and it was easier to get into the class than into an appointment time at the DMV. I figured I'd learn something, and get an insurance discount too.

We got into groups, watched videos and answered questions by looking in the book. The classroom session wasn't enlightening. If you are prone to drinking and driving, it might have convinced you to not ride and drive. He did his best to send people towards small bikes without actually saying it, but was obviously held back by something (HD supporting the program?). WTF?

The parking lot session was OK. I really didn't learn much about riding, but he helped point out a bad habit I had formed (not looking far enough through the corners...).

There was a guy. Holy shit.
This guy will probably have a terrible accident if he ever tries to ride a bike. He simply couldn't figure out the clutch. He'd stall it at idle, or rev the hell out of the bike and not release the clutch. An instructor worked with him as much as he could, without ignoring everybody else. I sincerely hope he didn't pass.

You may not be reading any more, but I don't think your class was out of line. If you didn't get it in the allotted time, spend some time practicing the friction zone thing and try again. It's possible that riding isn't for you.

Hopefully it is.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:59 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
Well, this was a fun thread.




:ba by


did I leave anything out???


I predict another 10 pages....it's pretty dead around here on the weekends.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:07 PM   #88
dbuzz
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I predict another 10 pages....it's pretty dead around here on the weekends.
Well the saga has been going on for over a year so what's another 10 pages
http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...6#post16449896

Perhaps this could be merged with the perpetual beginner thread
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:59 AM   #89
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I think the OP should consider a private instructor. I went that route (in Germany, you have to), and my heavens, it was one of the best two-month stretches of time in my life. It was expensive, and it was time consuming, but it really paid off.

There are a lot of buttheads out there. I work in industry, and there are still guys who get pissed when a chick comes out ont he shop floor to solve a problem that they couldn't. You just have to look past them and focus on your goal. They are speedbumps for sure, but if you hit them hard enough, you can get some nice air.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:32 AM   #90
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If you have an issue complain to the MSF mothership but be ready to answer some uncomfy questions. I'm not a msf corp member or any way related to the org but most instructors aren't there to be your friend, they're there to keep you alive. If you're there just for the drill to get papered or if you're there to learn makes a difference. Heck my ex ole lady even passed the class and day 1 to 1.5 was all about getting into her pants. So bad vibes on both ends. It took till 1/2 way through day two she finally told him if he doesn't lighten up and back off and she can't kick his arse she'll gut an fillet him before he hits the ground. She rode well and passed the course. Don't know all your specific instructor/student issues but contrary to US popular belief it's NOT always the teachers fault that lil Johnny flunked out. If you feel you really got jerked around bitch to the official people that can give you the warm-n-fuzzy you seek.
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