MSF Instructor was an MF'er

[Barry]

Originally Posted by tedder

One finger? Please take video showing your proficient braking skills. Maybe someone can quote me the "standard" for stopping distance from 40/45mph and you can stripe that out.

I use one finger sometimes, never more than 2. Lump me in with Ken.

Barry

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by tedder

One finger? Please take video showing your proficient braking skills. Maybe someone can quote me the "standard" for stopping distance from 40/45mph and you can stripe that out.

Off the top of my head, as applied in Oregon, rounded to the nearest five feet:
20mph- 23 feet (Oregon)
30mph- 45 feet
40mph- 90 feet

I'll have to go hunt my cards down for 45, 60, and 70mph; will edit later if anyone cares.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by PSYCHO II

A program that covers the entire State... wow perhaps a program that covers the entire Country. Nah... Ad Hoc pandemonium is the way we do it in this world ... what a joke... what confusion. All because trainers can't agree on a single syllabus....

I'm not even talking about syllabus- just differences in site-to-site policy. Some sites will send a student home if they tip over once; some places three times; some let them keep trying until they figure it out or they become a danger.

And then each state argues that there is no statistical evidence to prove that their method increases the risk to the rider. What is evident is the confusion between states.

I don't know that one program covering the entire country exactly the same way is necessarily a good thing. Does a Los Angeles commuter need to worry about deer as much as someone in North Carolina, or even think about snow?

Basic vehicle control is pretty much a constant. Likewise strategies for managing traffic and other environmental variables. HOW those get imparted to students- that's a whole can of worms that's above my pay grade.

Oh.... did you think I was talking about the 50 States of the USA... nah I was talking about the half dozen States of Oz. You'd think that such a small number would have little variation. Not the case.

Or even Europe. I understand there's some uproar in the UK over a recent addition of a basic operator's skill test- like what is done in the US- to the actual practical (get out on a street and ride) test that they've always done (and terrifies us in the US).

The continental approach- teach them everything they'll need to know- is also greatly different from the US approach- "teach them enough to hopefully not get killed while they figure the rest out." I'm sure there are reasons for each; can't say I know enough of each set of reasons to have an opinion if one is better than the other.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by tedder

One finger? Please take video showing your proficient braking skills. Maybe someone can quote me the "standard" for stopping distance from 40/45mph and you can stripe that out.

I don't need more than two fingers for a MAX stop on my R1200ST/GS. Servo brakes are cool!

Jim

[hooliken]

Originally Posted by dwoodward

So you signed up to be a student, then promoted yourself to RiderCoach, and they had a problem with that? Huh.
So you signed up to be a student, then chose not to attempt learning something different? Huh.

I quess for someone like yourself, who is so adept at pointing out other's flaws, that the word HELP automatically means doing the RC's job. Helping: by encouraging an obviously tentative, and somewhat scared, new rider does not mean I was trying to do the coaches job. Sometimes a little encourgement from someone is a good thing. Wouldn't you agree? Or were you not held enough and encouraged as a child?

Originally Posted by dwoodward

I wasn't there, so I can't evaluate your actual braking skill (which I'm sure is awesome squared). Maybe she had a point to make. From the cheap seats, it certainly sounds like your skills are inflexible, which implies limited.

And it wasn't the point that she was trying to make; I understand that they teach cover the brake with all your fingers. It was how she was going about with only certain riders in the class.

And how did you know I am awesome?

Yep! I suck. Only been riding for 20 years at that point. Started in the dirt, which usually meant a lot of broken levers. We were working class so had to make do. Dad wasn't about to take a break from his 16hr shift to go pick us up new levers every week. Stubby broken levers means less fingers on them. I must of done 100k + laps around our back yard with about 2 inches of clutch and brake lever left. It is how I learned, so apologies if that offended your awesomeness in some way.

Originally Posted by dwoodward

Nah. Just dragging pegs and trying impart how smart you are by coaching other students- possibly confusing them. Got it.

Ever ridden a Honda Rebel? I let other's choose first and ended up on a Rebel. I am not a small man and every turn was a grindfest. AND-Once again never coached only encouraged. Finally the RC with some sense swapped me and a smaller lady out and put me on one of their two Dualsports.

Originally Posted by dwoodward

So you think you're all that, but can't make a sportbike do what an RC (probably a fat old guy to boot) on a Harley can do. Got it.

Never made any claims to being all that.

You sir, obviously read whatever you wanted into my post. I was simply pointing out what I perceived to be a little gender bias in the class that I attended. I could of went on and on about every minute detail of that day, but figured anyone with some sense would understand the point. You chose to point out what you see as my obviously flawed personality and riding skills. Which you know nothing about. But, if it makes you feel better, have a ball.

Originally Posted by tedder

One finger? Please take video showing your proficient braking skills. Maybe someone can quote me the "standard" for stopping distance from 40/45mph and you can stripe that out.

You guys crack me up. So you use all your fingers every time you brake? Even just scrubbing speed or trail braking? I use two fingers (sometimes one, depending on the bike) but rarely all four. Have been doing it for 36 years and so far so good. But I have used all fingers in a quick stop situation on a bike with crappy brakes.

[Human Ills]

Originally Posted by Butters

I'm not sure why this discussion got so polarized.

ADV.

Internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some alcohol involved.

[svs]

Originally Posted by Human Ills

ADV.

Internet.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some alcohol involved.

Woo doggy... Ya'ought to wander down below and say hello to some'a the inmates....

Have not seen ya post in a bit... Hope yer well.

[AZbiker]

Originally Posted by tedder

One finger? Please take video showing your proficient braking skills. Maybe someone can quote me the "standard" for stopping distance from 40/45mph and you can stripe that out.

The Benelli I testrode had no ABS and monobloc Brembos.

2 fingers max, and not even a lot of pressure required to stop fast enough to require a strong grip on the tank to preserve the jewels.

[Jim Moore]

I must be a sissy. I've never been able to get full braking pressure with only two fingers. I always use four.

[SgtDuster]

Originally Posted by dolomoto

IMO, counseling a rider out is a failure on the RC. We're not teaching people to build the space shuttle, we're helping riders learn Basic motorcycle skills.

Maybe but are you sure that out 1800, you never came across one case where trying to "teach basic motorcycle skills" was like trying to teach an elephant to fly? Never? Come on!

1800 students and NO SINGLE FAILURE CASE? I don't want to call you a liar so I'll call you an overpermissive coach then.

[slartidbartfast]

Originally Posted by hooliken

Similiar thing happened when I did my BRC. But the gender roles where switched.

Even though I had already been riding for years I thought it would be cool to check it out. Besides myself there were a couple of other riders that were obviously not beginners.

One of our instructors was a female and was an absolute BeYOtch to myself and the other more advanced riders (all male), even though we were actually trying to help some of the ones that were struggling.

Would scream at us for dragging pegs and would not let the fact that I am a two finger brake guy go. That is how I cover the brake to this day, one or two fingers. She actually said that I was going to be in a wheelchair if I continued to brake like that.....

And no! None of us were "showing off"!

On the upside a guy on an old Dyna was teaching an advanced course in the same lot on Saturday. Talked him into letting me run the course after my beginners class was over. It was an MF'er on the 954RR. But he made it look like childs play on that big ole wide glide.

Once again, it's hard to assess the coaching without being there. Certainly asking you to take it easy (not drag pegs - which sure seems like showboating to me) seems reasonable as it is off-putting to other students (the beginners), disruptive for the class and potentially hazardous for both you and the bike.

You are undoubtedly correct that the RC was at fault for repeatedly screaming at you. Personally, if one polite conversation didn't do the trick, I would simply have told you to leave! It's enough to be responsible for a dozen people's safety when they are learning. I'm not going to take responsibility for you crashing while showing off, even if you appear pretty good at it.

Same thing goes for trying to "coach" other students. Even when done with the best of intentions, it is potentially hazardous for the students and mighty frustrating to the coaches. I would also suspect more than a bit of "don't listen to him/her, do it like this..." going on.

[SgtDuster]

Originally Posted by AZbiker

The Benelli I testrode had no ABS and monobloc Brembos.

2 fingers max, and not even a lot of pressure required to stop fast enough to require a strong grip on the tank to preserve the jewels.

The guy asked "ONE FINGER??!!" so please, you all, stop answering "what's the problem?!, I use 2 fingers all the time".

1 isn't 2 in my neck of the wood. While I have no problem with a "2 fingers on the brake" (I almost always do myself), I have a little problem with "only 1 finger on the brake". And let me bet 2$ that it's the same thing for tedder.

[LittleRedToyota]

different bikes require different braking pressure.

1 finger on my DRZ will get you pancaked into the back of the car in front of you. 2 fingers works fine, though.

on the other hand, 1 finger on my KTM can just about produce an unintentional stoppie.

[slartidbartfast]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

different bikes require different braking pressure.

1 finger on my DRZ will get you pancaked into the back of the car in front of you. 2 fingers works fine, though.

on the other hand, 1 finger on my KTM can just about produce an unintentional stoppie.

You are not a beginner on a training bike, trying to learn how to modulate brake pressure and avoid unintentional application of throttle while braking. IMO, it's not a huge deal for an experienced rider but there are good reasons for suggesting the use of all four fingers to a novice during a class.

[rbrsddn]

I've always used 2 fingers, even on the dirt bikes. I always cover the lever with 2, especially around traffic. It takes too much time to get 4 on the brake, IMO.