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Old 09-24-2012, 11:26 AM   #1
Ktm640 OP
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About to pull apart a lc4 640 engine

Right I have obtained a 2006 engine for my lc4 that is going to replace my dead black engine the only problem this engine has damage to the banjo bolt on the front of the engine.


So I'm going to get a new set of cases on a good deal and do. Complete strip of my engine and rebuild into the new cases.

The engine has only done 5600 miles so I'm not expecting any nightmare problems (fingers crossed) so with getting the cases and other associated seals and gaskets does anyone with experience on stripping the lc4 engines knows of other parts I will have to replace on a rebuild.

I'm also aware that I'm going to need some extra tools:

Depth gauge for the crank shimming

Vernier caliper for crank measurement (will bog standard do it or do they need to be deep jaw ones)

Dti for measuring the crank play.

And anything else anyone can think of, I have quite a good range of tools in my toolbox that I have recently rebuilt my bike with but the tools above I'm going to buy again as I'm wanting a more accurate set.

Also any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated and I have been studying the KTM engine manual and gunnerbucks,testas rebuild threads.

Thanks ross....
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #2
jon6.0
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Lots of info here:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86958
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2013 KTM 990 Baja w/ Termignoni cans
2013 KTM 690 Duke w/ performance cam, airbox, and Akrapovic full system
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:23 PM   #3
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktm640 View Post
I'm also aware that I'm going to need some extra tools:

Depth gauge for the crank shimming

Vernier caliper for crank measurement (will bog standard do it or do they need to be deep jaw ones)

....
Depth gauge is just a nice to have. I just filed down a rod then measured it with verniers.

You will need bearing race pullers if you have to adjust the crank shimming.

You will need deep verniers to measure the crank width.

The KTM gasket & seal set is very comprehensive.

Cheers
Clint
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The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:31 PM   #4
Ktm640 OP
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Yeah forgot about the pullers I need to get them to get the primary gear etc off so will need to purchase a gear puller

For the crank are they special bearing pullers or just general two or three leg puller.

I'm presuming that the crank will need reshimming with a crankcase change or not!!!!
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:57 PM   #5
Navin
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You can find no solution to the damaged banjo bolt besides case replacement???
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:25 PM   #6
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktm640 View Post
Yeah forgot about the pullers I need to get them to get the primary gear etc off so will need to purchase a gear puller

For the crank are they special bearing pullers or just general two or three leg puller.

I'm presuming that the crank will need reshimming with a crankcase change or not!!!!
Yup. Special pullers:



You can't get behind the main bearing races on the crank so you heat these up & squeeze em on. Chill the crank in the freezer first. They would be better made from aluminium as the factory ones are but I couldn't find any thick enough alu in the scrap pile that day

If putting the same crank back in the same cases I doubt you'd need to re shim.

The flywheel puller was quite reasonably priced ex KTM when I got mine.

Cheers
Clint
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'03 KTM 640 LC4 Enduro

The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:45 AM   #7
Ktm640 OP
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You can find no solution to the damaged banjo bolt besides case replacement???
The replacement engine i got was from a front impact bike and the frame snapped and swiped the front of the engine snapping the banjo bolt off and taking a chunk of aluminium out of the casing right next to the banjo thread so I have tried to reface the surface to get the oil line to reseal but it still leaks.

I could get it welded and refaced by a machine shop but I'm also aware that the cases may of took some damage (structural/fractures) from the frame snapping so I'm changing for peace of mind as well as to fix oil line problem.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
Yup. Special pullers:



You can't get behind the main bearing races on the crank so you heat these up & squeeze em on. Chill the crank in the freezer first. They would be better made from aluminium as the factory ones are but I couldn't find any thick enough alu in the scrap pile that day

If putting the same crank back in the same cases I doubt you'd need to re shim.

The flywheel puller was quite reasonably priced ex KTM when I got mine.

Cheers
Clint
Yep they look great clintnz don't suppose you have the inside diameter of the hole for the bearings as I have not stripped the engine yet so do not know the bearing o/d.

Isn't steel better for them like you made as that would retain the heat better so as to enlarge the bearing also how thick did you make yours.

Thanks Ross....
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:05 PM   #9
clintnz
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I'll measure them up tonight for ya, send me a nagging PM if you don't see a reply by Friday.

While Aluminium is only about 1/3 as dense as steel it has twice the specific heat capacity & is 4x better at heat transfer, there would also be less chance of damaging the bearing races than with steel.

Cheers
Clint
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:41 AM   #10
johnno950
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Dont forget to add the thickness of the gasket between lower caseing halfs when doing your axial/endfloat on crankshaft,easy mistake to make if not reading manual correctly,always good to get measurements/results spot one first time so dont have to remove bearings/adjust shimming.A good quality internal micrometer read by a good tradesmen is worthwhile.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktm640 View Post
The replacement engine i got was from a front impact bike and the frame snapped and swiped the front of the engine snapping the banjo bolt off and taking a chunk of aluminium out of the casing right next to the banjo thread so I have tried to reface the surface to get the oil line to reseal but it still leaks.

I could get it welded and refaced by a machine shop but I'm also aware that the cases may of took some damage (structural/fractures) from the frame snapping so I'm changing for peace of mind as well as to fix oil line problem.

I gotta think I'd be sealing that leak and running the engine for a bit to see . These engines are pretty built, beefy things. It runs now without bad noises? I've seen alot of case repairs, even on newer KTM ATVs cracked in racing accidents with other ATVs where the swingarm pivot cases cracked thru. A weld and grind and back to business in the next moto!

How about a pic of the damage and a pic of the crashed bike?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:41 PM   #12
Ktm640 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
I gotta think I'd be sealing that leak and running the engine for a bit to see . These engines are pretty built, beefy things. It runs now without bad noises? I've seen alot of case repairs, even on newer KTM ATVs cracked in racing accidents with other ATVs where the swingarm pivot cases cracked thru. A weld and grind and back to business in the next moto!

How about a pic of the damage and a pic of the crashed bike?
Tried to fix the leak by refacing the surface but to no avail.

The bike was not mine I bought the engine off a guy who had the crash it was a front on impact into a car.
Destroyed the front wheel, cracked the fork clamps, which in turn the folded the wheel into the frame which in turn then snapped and took a chunk out of the casing. The actual damage I thought might be a easy repair but it just pisses oil out of the front oil line banjo bolt position.

And all the mechanics and machine shops round by me will not touch the case without it completely stripped down.
So if I have to strip the engine might as well just swap the cases as a weld may fail further down the line or worst case the weld may warp the alu case somehow.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:55 PM   #13
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Toss us a pic of the damage. You never know what advice will turn up. I've seen cases welded in the pits while the bike was still completely together and still warm from racing so much can be done. Finding the right guy might be tougher.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #14
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnno950 View Post
Dont forget to add the thickness of the gasket between lower caseing halfs when doing your axial/endfloat on crankshaft,easy mistake to make if not reading manual correctly,always good to get measurements/results spot one first time so dont have to remove bearings/adjust shimming.A good quality internal micrometer read by a good tradesmen is worthwhile.
The KTM gasket set I got came with 2 case gaskets, so I bolted the cases together empty with a gasket in place to measure up for the crank shimming by filing down an alu rod to just fit between the bearing races. After fitting the crank it came out in spec 1st go but only just, at the tight end, I was being fussy so I had another couple of tries before I got the end float where I wanted it at 0.11mm.

My puller ID's are 43.9mm & 40.5mm. This is borderline loose when heated up though, you could probably go 43.8mm & 40.4mm fairly safely, make them to fit if you can, with a very tight fit when cold. With alu you would need to allow even more for thermal expansion. They need to be 20mm deep, a bit thicker won't hurt.

You may get lucky & not need to re-shim anyway - I would bet that the tolerances on the cases from batch to batch are probably pretty tight, the shims are there to allow for variation in the pressed-together crank assembly, so the same crank & the same bearings in different cases may not be a problem.

Cheers
Clint
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'03 KTM 640 LC4 Enduro

The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?

clintnz screwed with this post 09-26-2012 at 02:07 PM
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:30 PM   #15
Ktm640 OP
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That's awesome clintnz I'm just putting my old lathe back together at the moment so will be giving it a shot when I get it built just need to check how accurate my lathe is going to be and if its not ill get a mate to knock me some up on his lathe.

Will let you know how i do at making them....


Just another thing how hard was it to pull the bearings did it take just a pull/yank or was some persuasion involved.
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