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Old 12-17-2014, 09:24 PM   #1
Strong Bad OP
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Leading Links

I personally think that Leading Link (LL) front ends and sidecars go together like peanut butter and jelly. One of the selling point (to me) when I bought my first sidecar (a 2007 Ural Tourist) was the fact that it had a LL front end. We all know that a quality LL should have less flex and be more stable than "conventional" forks. A quality LL should also allow for a wider car wheel & tire combination.

The Aussies and the Euros both embrace utilizing LL on their rigs while here in the good ole US of A, you simply can't find an off the shelf LL supplier. Buying from out of country is not cheep nor easy. Finally, I'm not interested in a center steering setup.

So here is the deal, I'm a weldor/fabricator not an engineer or designer. I have access to all of the equipment needed (Benders, Notchers, water jet & plasma cutters and welders). That being said, I can't take over a race shop to play around with all sorts of different stuff. I can get in, do my work and get out of the way. The rig can't sit on the table while I scratch my ass & try to sort shit out.

So what I'm thinking is that I would like to build a LL front end for my rig (2007 BMW R1200GSA). With a "standard" motorcycle front fork set up mounting a LL is fairly easy as you can use the stock triple clamps. BMW of course complicates things with what BMW calls a "BMW Motorrad Telelever; 41 mm fork tubes,
central spring strut, spring pre-load with 5-position mechanical adjustment". So yeah there is one shock and then there are ball joints and arms and WTF?!! Of course there is also completely different Telelevers for the 1150 and the 1200 (is the 1100 different too?). This makes following TwinTwin & Davebig with their 1150s interesting but not directly applicable to my 1200.

I'm thinking that is SHOULD be possible to adapt my Telelever front end into a LL setup. If the shock on my Telelever was replaced with a simple solid strut, why couldn't a conventional LL fork with it's two conventional shocks be used???

So here is where I'm needing a wee bit of help with the design aspects of a basic LL fork.

When I look at Twintwins LL setup I see several things that appear to be logical including:

The LL fork tubes come out of the lower triple clamp and then are bent to vertical (90 degrees to the road).

The shocks are mounted so that they follow the same angle as the fork tubes have through the triple clamps (prior to the fork tubes bending towards vertical).

The axle, the lower shock mount and the swing arm pivot point are all on the same horizontal plane (parallel to the road).

What am I missing or need to be considered?
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:07 PM   #2
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Can't answer your questions but wanted to observe that the telelever LL's I've seen all use a solid strut to replace the front shock. So the telelever and the ball joint essentially become a fixed mounting point for the LL lower fork brace. I don't know if a specific length for the strut is better than another. Some I've seen looked kinda short so the telelever is sorta pointed up, and others seem to position the telelever in more or less a midway position.

If you can do this in a repeatable sort of way, I think you could sell copies to anybody with a 1200GS from 2005 all the way to end of the hexhead era.
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:53 PM   #3
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Wink Leading Links

Just finished making a LL set for an R1150 GSA.
One of the main concerns(not mentioned anywhere that I could find) was that the ball bearing in the Top yoke wasn't lined up (on the same axis) with the Ball Joint in the bottom yoke.
This shows up as a telescoping action of the stock BMW fork legs when you turn the bars lock to lock (with the wheel off the ground).
Think about that for a bit!!!
If you don't sort this problem out by building a new Telelever arm to reposition the Ball Joint, you'll have a problem down the track with those rubber "knuckles" in the Top yoke! And the Top yoke bearing won't be happy either!!!

I found this out by bolting in new legs, and the the bars only turned to about half lock and wouldn't go any further!! Loaded the steering bearings up like you wouldn't believe.

Other Stuff:
The Telelever arms on the R1150 and my old R1100 were exactly the same, don't know about the R1200.
I like the wheel axle to be about 40mm higher than the LL pivot on the LLs that I build(static, loaded, with about one third travel used up). Gives wheel travel a bit like Telescopic forks, up and back over bumps.

Hope this helps, will get Clancy to post a pic.

What could go wrong???

Phyllis (Phil)
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:09 PM   #4
DRONE
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SB, another off-topic reply from me, but when I saw these LL's I contacted the guy because it sure looked like he was using stainless. Nope--he got them nickel-plated.



They look so cool I thought I had to show you -- so you could add the cost of nickel-plating to your design!
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Old 12-17-2014, 11:11 PM   #5
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Posted for Phyllis


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Old 12-18-2014, 05:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE he got them nickel-plated.

[IMG
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h7/dronepix/for%20sale%20pics/OPM/stainlessleadinglinks.jpg[/IMG]
Why is this the best looking LL I've seen ?
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Old 12-18-2014, 05:11 AM   #7
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OK it's on POST 4.....damn quoting transfer thing
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Old 12-18-2014, 06:31 AM   #8
davebig
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Thanks Strong for starting a conversation !

Drone it looks like Stainless, it's a PITA to work with, it cuts,drills and welds with allot of extra trouble ! But looks great !
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Old 12-18-2014, 07:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRONE View Post
SB, another off-topic reply from me, but when I saw these LL's I contacted the guy because it sure looked like he was using stainless. Nope--he got them nickel-plated.



They look so cool I thought I had to show you -- so you could add the cost of nickel-plating to your design!
Nickel plating is cool, like the old Rickman or Cheeney frames. This particular design has thrown out all of my questions regarding stuff all being on the same planes. The shocks look to be on the same plane as the forks coming out of the triple clamps. The fork legs appear to actually bend back beyond vertical.

Finally I have to ask, WTF is that black thing between the hack & the tub?
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Old 12-18-2014, 07:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phyllis View Post
Just finished making a LL set for an R1150 GSA.
One of the main concerns(not mentioned anywhere that I could find) was that the ball bearing in the Top yoke wasn't lined up (on the same axis) with the Ball Joint in the bottom yoke.
This shows up as a telescoping action of the stock BMW fork legs when you turn the bars lock to lock (with the wheel off the ground).
Think about that for a bit!!!
If you don't sort this problem out by building a new Telelever arm to reposition the Ball Joint, you'll have a problem down the track with those rubber "knuckles" in the Top yoke! And the Top yoke bearing won't be happy either!!!

I found this out by bolting in new legs, and the the bars only turned to about half lock and wouldn't go any further!! Loaded the steering bearings up like you wouldn't believe.

Other Stuff:
The Telelever arms on the R1150 and my old R1100 were exactly the same, don't know about the R1200.
I like the wheel axle to be about 40mm higher than the LL pivot on the LLs that I build(static, loaded, with about one third travel used up). Gives wheel travel a bit like Telescopic forks, up and back over bumps.

Hope this helps, will get Clancy to post a pic.

What could go wrong???

Phyllis (Phil)
Thanks for the reply Phillis, I believe that 1150 & 1200 have different arms, how that changes anything (if at all) I'm not sure. I must qualify myslef as not being very knowledgeable with Beemer specific suspension, this rig is my first and only Beemer. Your post will cause me to look closely while cycling everything through from lock to lock.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:03 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Clancy View Post
Posted for Phyllis


Crap! Yet again a different layout!! The shocks look to have a slightly lower angle than the upper fork legs, and the bend on the fork legs again turn back beyond vertical. The axle is higher than the Pivot and the lower shock mount. I also see that a completely new lower Telelever arm has been made.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phyllis View Post
Just finished making a LL set for an R1150 GSA.
One of the main concerns(not mentioned anywhere that I could find) was that the ball bearing in the Top yoke wasn't lined up (on the same axis) with the Ball Joint in the bottom yoke.
This shows up as a telescoping action of the stock BMW fork legs when you turn the bars lock to lock (with the wheel off the ground).
Think about that for a bit!!!
If you don't sort this problem out by building a new Telelever arm to reposition the Ball Joint, you'll have a problem down the track with those rubber "knuckles" in the Top yoke! And the Top yoke bearing won't be happy either!!!

I found this out by bolting in new legs, and the the bars only turned to about half lock and wouldn't go any further!! Loaded the steering bearings up like you wouldn't believe.

Other Stuff:
The Telelever arms on the R1150 and my old R1100 were exactly the same, don't know about the R1200.
I like the wheel axle to be about 40mm higher than the LL pivot on the LLs that I build(static, loaded, with about one third travel used up). Gives wheel travel a bit like Telescopic forks, up and back over bumps.

Hope this helps, will get Clancy to post a pic.

What could go wrong???

Phyllis (Phil)
Phyllis
I was looking for you awhile back, on Twintwins rig it appears that EZS and What Claude entended to do with mine is tip telelever all the way up as you have, but convert the upper triple clamp to a solid mount and use the R11 lower bridge to bolt in the legs.


Didier if your reading this could you post an image of your top triple clamp if possible.thanks.DB

Didiers thread http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...=921941&page=4
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davebig screwed with this post 12-18-2014 at 08:16 AM
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by davebig View Post
Thanks Strong for starting a conversation !

Drone it looks like Stainless, it's a PITA to work with, it cuts,drills and welds with allot of extra trouble ! But looks great !
In one of my former lives I was a weldor fabricator and actually specialized in Stainless work, so I'm used to burning up drill bits! Stainless isn't always any stronger, which particular alloy used is the key. If and when I do build, I would use 4130 (aka: chrome-moly) the fork legs would be doubled with one tube lining the other. I know of a quality heat treat company in LA, so I would at least normalize the bits after welding.
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
Phyllis
I was looking for you awhile back, on Twintwins rig it appears that EZS and What Claude entended to do with mine is tip telelever all the way up as you have, but convert the upper triple clamp to a solid mount and use the R11 lower bridge to bolt in the legs.


Didier if your reading this could you post an image of your top triple clamp if possible.thanks.DB
Yes, please!
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Old 12-18-2014, 08:47 AM   #15
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I am loving it, keep talking guys !!


Ron,

ps: Clancy, can you please post pictures of Phil’s LL he just made ?
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