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Old 10-06-2012, 08:08 AM   #31
VxZeroKnots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
Isn't there a pretty big vein or artery in that area that can be severed by a broken collarbone? A friend's brother had what I understand was a relatively minor low-side on his HD, and he broke his collarbone. As I understand it, he severed something that caused some serious bleeding and almost killed him.
Sounds like it is rare but possible.

http://www.nursingcenter.com/prodev/...asp?tid=938803
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:56 PM   #32
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I think broken torso bones have a lot to do with a person's natural fall instinct that, unfortunately, tends to change only through lots of practice - and hopefully practice earned as a pliable youth. If you have a natural instinct to break a fall with your hands or feet, then your body and head will be well protected in a fall. I've seen two broken collar bones where the rider's gloves were completely unscratched, meaning they could not break their fall with the body's only natural shock absorbers and instead took the impact with their body and/or helmet. I think they held the handlebars right down to the ground. Elbows alone won't help, it's all in the 2-3 feet of deceleration from your outstretched hands and feet until head/body touch down.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:36 AM   #33
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stay inside, natch.
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Originally Posted by Red9
if a HD rider puts a car tire on the back of his bike he's an idiot...

Originally Posted by Kommando
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapper View Post
I think broken torso bones have a lot to do with a person's natural fall instinct that, unfortunately, tends to change only through lots of practice - and hopefully practice earned as a pliable youth. If you have a natural instinct to break a fall with your hands or feet, then your body and head will be well protected in a fall. I've seen two broken collar bones where the rider's gloves were completely unscratched, meaning they could not break their fall with the body's only natural shock absorbers and instead took the impact with their body and/or helmet. I think they held the handlebars right down to the ground. Elbows alone won't help, it's all in the 2-3 feet of deceleration from your outstretched hands and feet until head/body touch down.
breaking your fall with your hands while crashing a motorbike is a recipe for disaster. not only are you doing it wrong (crashing) but you're doing wrong wrong. unless severely damaged hands, wrists, etc are what you're going for.

maybe one of those bells would help...
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Originally Posted by Red9
if a HD rider puts a car tire on the back of his bike he's an idiot...

Originally Posted by Kommando
People that want to try to dictate my life to me can suck it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:50 AM   #35
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Go to Jump School... learn PLF... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parachute_landing_fall

Quote:
Experienced jumpers can deploy a parachute landing fall naturally during an accidental fall;
this has reduced or prevented injuries.
Do not extend arms to "catch" the fall...

I still have broken C bones three times, but have never had a broken wrist.

NFE
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonztheyeti View Post
breaking your fall with your hands while crashing a motorbike is a recipe for disaster. not only are you doing it wrong (crashing) but you're doing wrong wrong. unless severely damaged hands, wrists, etc are what you're going for.

maybe one of those bells would help...
yep.. ride that bitch to the ground if you can, if you can't then tuck and roll.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:22 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
that is absurd.

unless you believe in intelligent design of course.








Some interesting literature on neck braces and collar bones:

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/in...bout-it-2/full
I don't think intelligent design is required to justify saying the human body has features designed into it. I do happen to believe in it, but Darwin's model of survival of the fitest would also explain how certain features could provide better chance of survival, and eventually reproduction.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by dolomoto View Post
....... I'd rather my equipment absorb the impact rather than my bones.

YMMV.
That does sum it up rather nicely. But, unfortunately, I haven't found any equipment that does much for collarbone protection.

I just try to tun myself into a ball and let my back take as much of the impact as possible. Not that you always have a choice......

I am not sure either God or Darwin planned ahead for the human body getting slammed down at high speeds. So I put my faith in Knox.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:25 AM   #39
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Trading a broken collar bone for avoiding a serious head injury is a reasonable trade-off. But I think, like others have posted, it is time to completely rethink helmet design. We have finally figured out the impact protection comes from the EPS lining and not from the hard shell, the shell bing the culprit in the collarbone breaks. The shell protects against abrasion after the first contact with the ground - of your skin and the foam keeping it relatively intact for secondary impacts. There has to be a better material available. Helmet manufacturers should be looking at the Kevlar military helmets for ideas. The big question is will we riders accept a radical and possible unfashionable new look. The best advice is still "don't crash."
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fonztheyeti View Post
breaking your fall with your hands while crashing a motorbike is a recipe for disaster. not only are you doing it wrong (crashing) but you're doing wrong wrong. unless severely damaged hands, wrists, etc are what you're going for.
Well, as a gymnast, skier, skateboarder, rollerblader and life long motorcyclist that has hit the ground countless times (and knock on wood, never broken a bone yet) at all sorts of speeds and from all sorts of heights... I completely disagree. Your limbs are your only natural (and frankly expendable) shock absorbers.

Are you saying it would be better to hold your hands and arms in close to your body allowing your head or torso to take first impact? Every see a gymnast ever land a dive roll without using his hands?

(Of course you should never stiff-arm or stiff-leg a landing.... you absorb what you can by bending at elbows/knees, and dissipate the rest of the energy by rolling.)
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapper View Post
Well, as a gymnast, skier, skateboarder, rollerblader and life long motorcyclist that has hit the ground countless times (and knock on wood, never broken a bone yet) at all sorts of speeds and from all sorts of heights... I completely disagree. Your limbs are your only natural (and frankly expendable) shock absorbers.

Are you saying it would be better to hold your hands and arms in close to your body allowing your head or torso to take first impact? Every see a gymnast ever land a dive roll without using his hands?

(Of course you should never stiff-arm or stiff-leg a landing.... you absorb what you can by bending at elbows/knees, and dissipate the rest of the energy by rolling.)
congratulations on your many accomplishments.

i'm saying it's better to spread the initial impact over as large an area as possible, and that it's better to slide than to tumble.
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Originally Posted by Red9
if a HD rider puts a car tire on the back of his bike he's an idiot...

Originally Posted by Kommando
People that want to try to dictate my life to me can suck it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:26 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
I don't think intelligent design is required to justify saying the human body has features designed into it. I do happen to believe in it, but Darwin's model of survival of the fitest would also explain how certain features could provide better chance of survival, and eventually reproduction.
My idea of the fittest doesn't involve those with one fully functioning arm (likely given a lack of medical knowledge) with an accompanying elevated risk of puncturing an artery.

But I digress, it would be a shame to get in the way of folks arguing proper falling technique.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:44 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by fonztheyeti View Post
i'm saying it's better to spread the initial impact over as large an area as possible, and that it's better to slide than to tumble.
Sliding is better I agree, but that assumes you're already on the ground. If you end up airborne, are you saying it would be better to land flat on your side or belly first since it has a greater surface area, rather than throw your hands down?

Frankly, in the vast majority of cases you simply won't have a choice - pure instinct will bring most people's hands down first.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:07 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Snapper View Post
Sliding is better I agree, but that assumes you're already on the ground. If you end up airborne, are you saying it would be better to land flat on your side or belly first since it has a greater surface area, rather than throw your hands down?

Frankly, in the vast majority of cases you simply won't have a choice - pure instinct will bring most people's hands down first.
I instinctively tuck and roll and always have. If I trip, I will take the impact on my shoulder and roll to dissipate the force.

If it came down to it, I'd prefer a busted clavicle to a screwed up wrist and possible loss of use of a hand.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #45
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I may jinx myself for saying this, 4 years of judo training 4 times aweek in my teens.
At 60+yo, I still tuck in when I fall or break my fall as in judo.

Other old farts that were into gymnastics or tumbling say the same thing.

Never broke a collar bone, only a little toe, minor pelvis fracture and oddly my right scapula < this in a desert high-side..
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