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Old 10-06-2012, 05:52 PM   #16
Toysrme
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VS a "Real Flight"
having a hot 18 year old softball player to catch a plane is another area the sim falls short

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:13 PM   #17
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Goldberg Eagle II

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Old 10-06-2012, 06:21 PM   #18
Toysrme
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had two :) second one is in the box still heh.

they're easily the best 4 channel primary trainer. fly rings around all the trainers out now. much better handling. the reason is because eagle II's don't require a master builder to build at 4 1/2lbs where all the ARF/RTF trainers out there now are all 5.5-6.5 pounds and that's just too heavy!
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:27 PM   #19
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Awesome advice, I went to the hobby store and couldn't help myself....



They had the earlier recommended super cub and was WAY bigger than I expected. I think I'll play around with the sim for a bit and then work towards either a super cub or an eagle II I'm very competent with gas or electric engines so I foresee some of both in my future. I found there is an AMA field very close to me and a not so official field about 20 miles away. What does AMA stand for and how much is it to join? (if anyone knows)
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:01 PM   #20
Toysrme
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yay! big first step!


Academy of Model Aeronautics
First understand you DO NOT have to have a license to fly R/C "hobby" aircraft in the USA. You can fly ANYWHERE as there has never been FEDERAL restrictions to where you may fly. NO agencies BUT the FAA has a legal claim to the Airspace in our country. (That wont stop cities/towns/municipalities and the park services from running you off tho!)

Their Positives:
  • Virtually all ACTUAL R/C clubs require AMA membership. (As in, they own the property, hav ena airstrip, pits, actual club membership, etc)
  • AMA is the modelers only political lobbiest. They AT TIMES protect US from the FAA and the FCC
  • AMA provides "up too $250,000usd" insurance should you play somebody/something
  • They have a magazine
Their Negatives:
  • They are a magazine publisher & Insurance company ONLY. They are ONLY interested in eventually pushing the FAA and FCC into REQUIRING all hobbiest R/C useage to have an AMA license
  • Absolutely nobody, ever, gets an AMA insurance claim. They ALWAYS come up with a reason to fully invalidate a claim.
  • Put your aircraft on your HOMEOWNERS/RENTERS policy. Many will cover it and you won't have to fight.
Ok, so it's obvious I'm rather Anti-AMA for the above reasons. Here's why I DO continue saying new members SHOULD join an AMA R/C club if there is one nearby. They will have people that can help you and assuming you don't have 15 acers to fly on yourself, youll need a real "field"once you start flying reasonably sized planes. (3-4 pounds and larger).







Just please heed my words. Real Flight (and Pheonix) are built to SELL you planes. Even with all the "physics" and "difficulty" maxed out, planes in sims are flat out easier than real life. In real life virtually all the planes/helis found in the sim are significantly heavier with significantly less power.
My rule of thumb (Because I have & have owned many planes in real flight over the years) is cut the engine power by 30-50%, and if it's a sport plane, increase the weight 50%. THEN they fly "about what they should". LoL!

I'm not anti-sim. They save money ever time you reset! I'm "so many newbies have bought them in the last 2 decades only to be bitterly disappointed with the real life versions of the planes that are 10-15mph slower and have a much higher, faster sink-rate when gliding)". It's just not a lot of guys out there (even on the R/C forums) have enough experience with enough types of models & flying to actually tell you that! Mainly, because they're out flying and never have a use for sim flying LoL!

Toysrme screwed with this post 10-06-2012 at 08:09 PM
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:09 PM   #21
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they likely told you the parkzone super-cub.
keep in mind. if thats what they reccomended that's actually almost 4 times smaller than what virtually everyone flying before about 2005 was learning on! ;) it's something you can sneak into a park or field & try to fly.

it's a very popular entry into the hobby. i can't stand them personally. theyre so small they don't fly very well. their redeeming feature is that half the people that ever buy them can just pay their $175 bucks, throw it a few times & decide RC sucks. Or, they think it's the greatest thing ever and go tell everyone else on RCGroups or Wattflyer or RCU about how wonderful it is LoL!

But hey... Aint my money :)









Lemmie tell you legit exactly how to approach this before you go blowing money k? Go to your local flying field. Virtually all R/C club's will have a trainer with a buddy box & someone designated to fly on you on. They do all the work and you get to fly without fear. If you fudge it, they let go of a spring loaded button & cut your control off.

MOST R/C clubs in the USA will let someone come do it 3 times before asking them to "join the club or not". It's also a good time to get a feel for the people in the club. Down here everyone is friendly, elsewhere they're not. But if the freakin "cub designated buddy-box pilot" isn't a nice guy. Then you may not get along with that R/C club!
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toysrme View Post
they likely told you the parkzone super-cub.
keep in mind. if thats what they reccomended that's actually almost 4 times smaller than what virtually everyone flying before about 2005 was learning on! ;) it's something you can sneak into a park or field & try to fly.

it's a very popular entry into the hobby. i can't stand them personally. theyre so small they don't fly very well. their redeeming feature is that half the people that ever buy them can just pay their $175 bucks, throw it a few times & decide RC sucks. Or, they think it's the greatest thing ever and go tell everyone else on RCGroups or Wattflyer or RCU about how wonderful it is LoL!

But hey... Aint my money :)









Lemmie tell you legit exactly how to approach this before you go blowing money k? Go to your local flying field. Virtually all R/C club's will have a trainer with a buddy box & someone designated to fly on you on. They do all the work and you get to fly without fear. If you fudge it, they let go of a spring loaded button & cut your control off.

MOST R/C clubs in the USA will let someone come do it 3 times before asking them to "join the club or not". It's also a good time to get a feel for the people in the club. Down here everyone is friendly, elsewhere they're not. But if the freakin "cub designated buddy-box pilot" isn't a nice guy. Then you may not get along with that R/C club!


The guy at the hobby store mentioned a buddy box and getting 2-3 free passes to check it out before I had to "pay up". I may ride over there tomorrow after I go to the rifle range and check it out. I'm not looking to buy a plane for at least 2-3 months, that was the SO's deal, I could get the sim but not a plane for awhile. Besides, since my last post and this one I've probably destroyed about 50 planes....

I can get them in the air and fly them easily, I just can't seem to get them back down in 1 piece.

Is it really not obvious to people that the sim isn't 100% accurate? I've watched lots of RC plane video's on youtube and almost none of them can take off completely vertical straight into loops etc.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:46 PM   #23
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I was in your shoes about a year ago this month. I started ultra cheap, and upgraded as I needed.

First off, a sim is super valuable. I have been using Microsoft Flight Simulator for 17 years. I have real flight time in a Cessna 172, and a Stinson 108. That being said, I have lots of experience flying from the cockpit, and understanding the physics of flight. When I bought my foamy, I bought a cheap USB controller that was similar to the one that came with my plane. I had a cheap FMS Cessna 182 with a 55" wingspan. I spent $100 and that included a battery, radio, plane, motor, ESC, and all servos. I built the plane, taxied it around the neighborhood and spent lots of time using the clearview sim. It's cheap, but the physics are pretty good. The best part is that it had my Cessna modeled into it. I spent a few hours each day for almost a week flying it until I could take off, fly it, and then land it. I even played around with the wind settings.

I got my courage up, and took the 182 out for it's first flight. I took off, trimmed it, and then started shooting approaches ASAP. Take off is optional, landing is mandatory. Once I felt comfortable, I got it on the ground to make sure I could do it. I got in one more flight before the battery was discharged. I played around with that plane and loved it. It was a blast to fly. Then I stepped up to another foamy but this time with a bigger motor, and retractable gear. I also stepped up to a Spektrum DX6i radio. It was fun, but the plane didn't hold together well. The landing gear mounts aren't the best, and I had a hard time transitioning to it. I got a USB cable that allows me to plug my spektrum radio to the computer for the clearview sim. Makes things much better.

I then put together a balsa ARF cub that was a bit bigger. The balsa planes fly much better than the foamies, but crashes aren't as forgiving. I had an ESC fail, and lost all power to the plane. It crashed and was not rebuildable. Foam probably would have been just as bad though.

My latest is this one:



Cost $120 for the kit from hobbyking.com. I have at least that much more in the electronics/motor of the plane. The gear are actually from another super cub kit that is more scale. I haven't flown it yet, but it's the same basic kit as the clipped wing cub I crashed but has slightly longer wings and flaps.

It's a fun hobby, and you can spend as much as you want and have fun.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:09 PM   #24
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yup. lesson to learned. it happens, no big deal! we all been there!
if a plane is large enough to handle a couple oz more weight. always try to have your receiver/radio system powered with its own power source. if at all possible a "failproof" source. as in directly from batteries. be it 4/5 cell nimh/nicd packs or two A123 cells. (BEC's are a failure point and can introduce RFI/EMI into the radio system). (lipos and a BEC are still better than an ESC powering the radio).





Bagel what happens is this. (Keep in mind I'm not biased. I build/own/buy/sell/fly about everything, even electric foamies!) So let me say something very biased. The reason people "don't get" that simulators are not close is because they never advance themselves in R/C. That is 100% fine! But the classic example is somebody that's only ever flown little foamies get's bent out of shape at a real club because nobody will let them test fly their non-trainer plane. They think because they can do half the 3D manuvers in the book with little flat plate foamies that they can fly anything. They're GREAT for learning that kind of stuff (just like a sim), but don't teach you what the real deal can!

It's not a knock on foamies as much as pointing out Pilot Error & that small foamies & sims can't teach everything that happens or you may eventually need to know. :) the ah. take everything in steps no matter what you do & don't over-fly your abilities.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:49 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toysrme View Post
yup. lesson to learned. it happens, no big deal! we all been there!
if a plane is large enough to handle a couple oz more weight. always try to have your receiver/radio system powered with its own power source. if at all possible a "failproof" source. as in directly from batteries. be it 4/5 cell nimh/nicd packs or two A123 cells. (BEC's are a failure point and can introduce RFI/EMI into the radio system). (lipos and a BEC are still better than an ESC powering the radio).





Bagel what happens is this. (Keep in mind I'm not biased. I build/own/buy/sell/fly about everything, even electric foamies!) So let me say something very biased. The reason people "don't get" that simulators are not close is because they never advance themselves in R/C. That is 100% fine! But the classic example is somebody that's only ever flown little foamies get's bent out of shape at a real club because nobody will let them test fly their non-trainer plane. They think because they can do half the 3D manuvers in the book with little flat plate foamies that they can fly anything. They're GREAT for learning that kind of stuff (just like a sim), but don't teach you what the real deal can!

It's not a knock on foamies as much as pointing out Pilot Error & that small foamies & sims can't teach everything that happens or you may eventually need to know. :) the ah. take everything in steps no matter what you do & don't over-fly your abilities.
Understood!

I've had a crosswind up high shred rockets before, the real world is pretty unpredictable. I'll be honest, after playing with this sim for about 2 hours I can't even get near the runway lol. I can land the plane, but nowhere near where I want to. I'm planning to take it slow, but I do want to advance and build thing myself, I just don't want the "I told you so!" from the SO when I bring home a pile of toothpicks/foam.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:35 AM   #26
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ya it takes a little while because you're on a 2D monitor & not real life and because you just have to learn controlling something way over yonder :) it bites you either way. flying normal R/C you can exactingly tell the distance to the ground and see how the plane reacts to the air relative to where you want to be, but your spacial ability on what the plane is actually near is poor at best. (the rule of thumb is if there is ANYTHING at all you can possibly crash into, you will. ESPECIALLY if it's just one sole object with nothing else around it!). a real plane (or FPV) is easier to line up, you can see how close the plane is to anything the camera is looking at but much harder to judge overall distance & sink rate.


learn it "by the book" and youll be peaches. don't have to use it (and most of us all disregard most of it as you become increasingly adept at how the plane handles & what kind of speed/room you need), but its good to know how for the day you need it!
wrote this awhile back for the new flyers on an r/c forum.
Quote:
-landing depends on the plane and the conditions. there is no one way to land.

landings should always be done 3-9 or 9-3. pilots are always perpendicular to the runway.


there are six ways to land:
crash
stall and crash
over-control & crash
____________________________
flared landing, where the plane is flown near stall speed (common of tricycle landing gear, or a "3 point landing" on tail draggers)
unflared landing on the mains (where there is no flare, or elevator control speed. you simply fly a bit above stall speed. lop the throttle once you hit ground effect & the plane simply sinks onto the runway. a "2 point landing" for tail draggers. You get major league style points if this is done at a fast enough speed so that your plane "runs out on the mains" a good distance before the tail settles to the ground)
High Angle of Attack or "Harrier" landing. (Where a 3D plane flies under stall speed into a harrier & you sink it into the ground. About the time you enter ground effect you give a generous blip of throttle to slow your decent rate and gain more forward flight speed. It's very hard on air frames & it is not uncommon to eventually break planes completely in half (typically at the rear wing saddle to fuselage bulkhead mounting area), break landing gear, or punch aluminum landing gear all the way back up into your wings)

the proper way to land is to:
0.5) first understand that you should always fly in front of you and you should never need to turn your body to see the plane or look up above you...
1) enter the correct flight pattern (racetrack style - your landing should be into the wind)
starting from a half-racetrack (going downwind from your "runway") AND a medium altitude
2) cut to 1/2 throttle
3) execute the first 90* turn
4) chop throttle to 1/3
5) start descending
At this point you will fly straight until you need to make your FINAL TURN which puts you in line with the runway
6) execute your FINAL TURN GENTLY. Your flight speed is low, and this is THE time as a beginner / pilot that doesn't know how to actually land a "real plane" with an actual wing loading to stall and crash (especially in wind). Do NOT over control. Do NOT "cross the runway" so that the plane is behind you / pilots
7) Cut power to 1/4 / high idle (whatever it takes). Fly towards the runway (aim at it). You should be slowing and descending at this time
Lastly... When the plane enters ground effect (that's the altitude equal to your wing span) the plane will begin to settle down, become more stable as air increasingly compresses between the wing and ground.
THIS is the time you either:
CHOP THROTTLE and FLARE (3 point tail dragger / mains tricycle landing)
or
CHOP THROTTLE & HOLD CONTROL INPUT (2 point main gear tail dragger landing)

learning unflared landings can be difficult with small foam planes, and this is a huge problem trying to jump into bigger heavier higher performance sport planes! you don't float them in! they need more speed! they are also SAFER than slow flared landings! why? because the higher speed gives you higher control and you are less affected by wind!

this is the correct way to land. please understand larger, heavier planes fly better (especially in wind) and learning BOTH landing techniques is essential if one is to fly anything but the smallest foamy planes successfully for long amounts of time.
Also please understand that 2 point mains landings are much more repeatable & much less affected by wind. you may execute this type of landing even in high lift "floater" planes (like trainers, 3D planes, high lift aerobatic planes etc) by using spoilerons to increase their sink rate so they don't "continue flying" once in ground effect. this makes these planes MUCH easier to handle in windy conditions.
pilots that don't understand a proper mains landing must rely on slamming into the ground, or a "flared" landing in wind. this only invites airframe abuse. (ask yourself the question. why would you want to fly even closer to stall speed on a windy day & risk being caught in the wind/stalling/under&over-controlling the plane into the ground)




good luck with it. and obviously. as your skill increases you will find the ability to simply orient yourself with the runway however you want & land however you want in MUCH less space.




one last piece of advice. DO NOT try to fly near stall speed when making your turns like a n00b that doesn't know WTH he's doing. this is incorrect & only invites total disaster when the wind stops turning into the wind, or you turn downwind. you WILL stall, you likely will NOT recover from it unless it's a 3D capable plane. KEEP YOUR SPEED UP. you can always bleed a little speed off later when you're lined up with the runway.
Back in the day, all planes had descent manuals with basic instruction like this:







FWIW, that's why overzealous people going from small light wing loaded planes have issues with bigger heavier ones. the smaller ones you get away with murder & they don't really exhibit what is happening to the flight profile. they're just not going to snap & fall out of the sky :) BUT take heart! once you learn to fly, the bigger, heavier planes fly better. the extra mass punches through wind & keeps momentum up through aerobatics and stronger construction responds better in the air. ;) pluses and minuses to everything :)


in fact, despite the fact i use to be a club trainer, i am absolutely HATE landing most trainers. they come in slow, they have no sink-rate (they float forever), springy landing gear & lots of lift make them bounce all over the place if you drop one from too high (i.e. you were in a headwind that gave you lift & then the breeze stopped = deep stall from a foot up) and they get caught by wind like a sailboat. in those regards, typical easy to fly trainers are really the hardest thing to land until you get into real scale planes and planes that come in like rockets! most sport planes that come in really hot pretty much the same regardless of wind, all you do is line them up, chop the throttle at the same altitude/distance/speed and they'll sink down to the ground inside a small circle every time. you can load up on fuel & batteries and do touch & goes for hours and never be outside of a relatively small circle. where a trainer is at the mercy of the wind.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:30 AM   #27
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I have to admit...

The planes in the SIM are infinity adjustable for power and flight characteristics. That is part of the fun, There are a bunch of them available on the Swap Page in the Knife Edge forum that have been tailored to fly like the RC plane that is being modeled. The field conditions can be modeled too. Sim fun is just another part of the hobby.

1993


Not the same plane - but the same color 2012


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Old 10-07-2012, 07:35 PM   #28
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I'll admit that I didn't read the whole thread, so if this has been said, ignore me.

If you've got a fairly large field or park nearby I would suggest a Hobbyzone Champ to get started with. $100 everything in the box ready to fly. Fun as all get out and super easy to fly. My 7yo flies mine all the time now. I've got a couple of them ranging from the beater to the super nice one that only I fly.

Here is one of mine with larger tires added to be able to land on the green at a golf course.

Best thing about the Champ, you can pretty much fly it anywhere. The golf course by my house has no problem with me out there in the early mornings or late evenings flying my plane. They are also tough as nails. While you can break them, its hard too. They also don't hurt that bad if you hit yourself by accident.

They can break though.

But they are easy to fix.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:08 AM   #29
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I'll second the Hobbyzone Champ. Available at your local shop with lots of parts. Just make sure you do your first flights in as little wind as possible. After a few weeks with the Champ (I was flying a LOT) I moved up to the Apprentice.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:00 AM   #30
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Did you happen to catch this thread?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454360

I too, am addicted to planes...






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