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Old 10-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #16
worwig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
I got a response from AOPEC and it is a relay system. I'm going to have to figure out what my stator output is in amps and I'll figure out which heat sink isolator will work for my application. Then I'm going to have to find a spot to install it on the bike. Maybe under the tour pack.

Once I start the install I'll get some progress pics up to show my setup.
Are you saying that you don't want a good relay system for some reason?
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
I got a response from AOPEC and it is a relay system. I'm going to have to figure out what my stator output is in amps and I'll figure out which heat sink isolator will work for my application. Then I'm going to have to find a spot to install it on the bike. Maybe under the tour pack.

Once I start the install I'll get some progress pics up to show my setup.

Why are you dibolically oppossed to an automatic charge relay type system ?
On a motorcycle power is EXTREEMELY limited and the ACR has way more power loss then a diode type.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #18
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I don't like the relay systems, because they only isolate the power when the bike is turned off. When you look at the heat sink isolators they are true isolators and the two batteries can never affect each other no matter the state of the motorcycle. These can also protect the stator and rectifier-regulator from any issues from the batteries or anything I may attach to the bike.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the kaz View Post
Why are you dibolically oppossed to an automatic charge relay type system ?
On a motorcycle power is EXTREEMELY limited and the ACR has way more power loss then a diode type.
Well....am I missing something?

I'm just trying to get the best solution and so far based off of what I read and people I talked to the ACR didn't seem to fit all my wants, but I've been wrong before.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
Well....am I missing something?

I'm just trying to get the best solution and so far based off of what I read and people I talked to the ACR didn't seem to fit all my wants, but I've been wrong before.
Sorry its 25 years of building ambulances and seeing all that can go wrong with diode type isolators
Number one concern is voltage loss and in ability for the charging system to sence both batteries ( or "turn on" the regulator if useing a non self exciting charge system )
I could go on ranting but

is there a specific reason your looking for dual batteries ?
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:31 PM   #21
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First is for camping and to allow me to have a little power at night with out risking a dead battery in the morning. Second, its probably an old habit, but I have always connected accessories to a secondary battery and I have plans to run a gps, ham radio, and aux lights.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
First is for camping and to allow me to have a little power at night with out risking a dead battery in the morning. Second, its probably an old habit, but I have always connected accessories to a secondary battery and I have plans to run a gps, ham radio, and aux lights.
Then either system will work fine....
With an ACR system the batteries are only connected when the primary battery has a charging voltage like when the bike is running this way the dead battery cannot effect the starting of the bike. Its really not a "dual" battery system but rather a primary and a secondary. I like them better becuase in the one side dead scenario the secondary battery has a better chance of a full recharge where as an isolator may only fully charge the side that is being used for charge system voltage sencing. Alot depends on the batteries and charging system involved
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by the kaz View Post
Then either system will work fine....
With an ACR system the batteries are only connected when the primary battery has a charging voltage like when the bike is running this way the dead battery cannot effect the starting of the bike. Its really not a "dual" battery system but rather a primary and a secondary. I like them better becuase in the one side dead scenario the secondary battery has a better chance of a full recharge where as an isolator may only fully charge the side that is being used for charge system voltage sencing. Alot depends on the batteries and charging system involved
Are you saying that the stator and regulator setup on motorcycles won't allow for the proper charging of the secondary battery if the primary is fully charged with a heat sink isolator?

Are stators self exciting?

Rescue Wagon screwed with this post 10-08-2012 at 01:42 PM Reason: Another question
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
Are you saying that the stator and regulator setup on motorcycles won't allow for the proper charging of the secondary battery if the primary is fully charged with a heat sink isolator?

Are stators self exciting?
Most modern bikes use permanent magnet stators which are self exciting. So they produce AC voltage the moment you spin them. Does the common bike regulator have a set voltage or would it over volt without a reference voltage ? That a great question !!!!! I dunno
Either way there is a diode type isolator for each scenerio. If the bike can control its regulated voltage without battery reference then any diode isolator will do. Hell you could build your own. If the bike needs a reference voltage then you need to get an isolator with a four smaller post. Sometimes this post is called the Exciter/reference post.
To answer your question..... if the bike used a diode isolator with an exciter or reference circuit then yes it is possible to have the side not connected as the reference voltage to be under charged.......

Bussman, Vanner, Surepower and ColeHersee all build isolators BUT I have never looked for small bike sized ones ? I am used to trying to deal with hundreds of amps not 10-20 Hell we have even come to parralleling 200AMP models to get 400AMPS
Maybe send the guys at Ricks stators an email with your plan and bike? They may say go for it or have a regulator that will work better for ya
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #25
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Power werx

I buy battery supplies from this place:

http://www.powerwerx.com/batteries-c...-100-amps.html

Here's an example of what they sell:



Battery Separator for Auxiliary Batteries 100 Amps

This battery separators acts as a smart switch to connect independent battery banks only when charging voltage is present. Otherwise, they are isolated, and discharge between banks is prevented. Ideal for adding an auxiliary battery to your main battery.

Lots more stuff if you spend some time on the site.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:42 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
I don't like the relay systems, because they only isolate the power when the bike is turned off.
Actually, they are only turned on when the charge voltage is high enough. They don't go on and off with the key as far as I know. Though even if they did, I see no issues there.

The diode sestems might mess up the regulator and the way is senses the charge voltage. The extra diode drop can be a real problem. Depends on the alternator design. Either way, you are going to turn some of the alternator output into heat, so the charge will be a little less efficient. An issue if you have a weak charging system.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:08 PM   #27
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I talked with www.nocousa.com and they said that no heat sink isolator will work with a motorcycle stator, so that will make the decision a little easier. Based on the relay ones I think I'm going to try the AOPEC Smart Battery Isolator and see how it goes.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue Wagon View Post
I talked with www.nocousa.com and they said that no heat sink isolator will work with a motorcycle stator, so that will make the decision a little easier. Based on the relay ones I think I'm going to try the AOPEC Smart Battery Isolator and see how it goes.
Sorry to bring back this 3 months old thread, but how did it go, Rescue Wagon? Are you running two batteries now? What system did you end up with? Any feedback is appreciated.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:16 PM   #29
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No worries.

I went with the smart battery isolator from DFNA. It's not installed yet as I haven't had the bike off the road long enough to install the trunk the second battery is going to go into, so hopefully before my big trips that start this spring I'll get it all put together. Here is the link to their site:

http://www.dfna.info/smart-battery-isolator.html
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:15 PM   #30
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Second battery

Chaps I know very little about electrics as you might realise when I ask the question.

Could I simply use 2 x Lion batteries (one to replace the original) connected in parallel such that I'll have one for camping. Could I use something like clamps to connect to the 2nd battery for easy removal from the bike. I was thinking that the secondary battery might be a good contingency for the main battery as well.

thanks
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