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Old 10-10-2012, 11:55 AM   #31
DirtDabber
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Drone,

Just wanted to throw out the dynamic of the arc of a rollover to make sure it is in your thought process. It sounds like it is but someone may get some benefit from it.

As the wheel lifts the most resistance is in the first part of the lift. The steeper the riding slope where the sidecar wheel is already above the bike wheels the less force is required to move the sidecar wheel up and over. Draw an arc from 0 to 90 degrees. From 0-30 degrees it takes a lot of force to move the wheel up. from 30-60 degrees considerably less force and from 60-90 degrees very little force is required.

Since you can not shift your weight it may take more weight than you would think to accomplish what you are trying to do.

The arc is similar to the rear rollover hazard on a tractor. The rear rollover hazard for a tractor is increased as the slope the tractor is climbing increases.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #32
ragtoplvr
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Cosine of the angle

10 Degrees is .98
30 deg .866
45 deg .707
60 deg .5
75 deg .25
90 deg 0

Once you cross 45 deg it falls rapidly
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:18 PM   #33
DirtDabber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr View Post
Cosine of the angle


Once you cross 45 deg it falls rapidly


Thanks, I should have paid attention in class that day.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:39 PM   #34
Turkeycreek
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I would not use softener salt. I remember a guy in college putting bags of salt in his car trunk for winter traction. In the spring, the salt, which had gotten wet, had rusted his trunk badly and perforated the metal in some spots. I realize that your rig is fiberglass and you would spot any problems quickly but you probably have steel fitments somewhere for the salt to attack. Kitty litter sounds good but I used milk jugs filled with water. I always thought the collapsible plastic water jugs they sell in sporting goods stores would be good as they would fold up when empty if you need the room. Never tried them as I ran w/out ballast most of the time.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #35
DRONE OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtDabber View Post
Drone,

Just wanted to throw out the dynamic of the arc of a rollover to make sure it is in your thought process. It sounds like it is but someone may get some benefit from it.

As the wheel lifts the most resistance is in the first part of the lift. The steeper the riding slope where the sidecar wheel is already above the bike wheels the less force is required to move the sidecar wheel up and over. Draw an arc from 0 to 90 degrees. From 0-30 degrees it takes a lot of force to move the wheel up. from 30-60 degrees considerably less force and from 60-90 degrees very little force is required.
Even better, draw the arc from -30 to +90 degrees. From -30 to zero, like in a banked turn, it's pretty much impossible for centripetal force to overcome gravity unless you are going really really fast!
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtDabber View Post
Since you can not shift your weight it may take more weight than you would think to accomplish what you are trying to do.
I can shift my weight! Who said I can't shift my weight? I've been a skier all my life, and was a ski racer in college! Ski racers definitely know how to shift their weight forward and back and side to side. As do dual sport motorcycle riders.

What I said was, "I have a funky right knee and can't transfer my weight to the right footpeg the way I'd like." What his means is that I can't hold my entire body weight on my right leg and bounce up and down on it like I could before my knee surgery. Just can't do it. Can do it on my left, but not my right.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:18 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 4PawsHacienda View Post
I used a bucket of kitty litter.
Anybody who's ever ridden with me, please chime in here if you think I'm wrong. But I believe, knowing me, you will never ever ever find kitty litter on my outfit. Ever.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeycreek View Post
I would not use softener salt. I remember a guy in college putting bags of salt in his car trunk for winter traction. In the spring, the salt, which had gotten wet, had rusted his trunk badly and perforated the metal in some spots. I realize that your rig is fiberglass and you would spot any problems quickly but you probably have steel fitments somewhere for the salt to attack. Kitty litter sounds good but I used milk jugs filled with water. I always thought the collapsible plastic water jugs they sell in sporting goods stores would be good as they would fold up when empty if you need the room. Never tried them as I ran w/out ballast most of the time.
Hadn't thought about that. Right where I'd put the ballast are the bolts holding the tub to the frame, and the steel seat support.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the vertical post and barbell weights solution suggested above by ag_streak.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:02 AM   #39
JustKip
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My friend, Thomas (T REX here ) has been known to use a keg of beer as ballast
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:14 AM   #40
davebig
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Where's your battery ?

I can't believe you guys haven't all got batteries in boxes mounted somewhere on your chair frame and some 4awg welding cable battery connections with automotive batteries lots of amps lots of reliability and ballast out on the chair.My first chair adv was an unfaired 83 wing with Ural I put a battery in the trunk, it allowed me relayed circuits for headlights and running lights and I could damn near ride it on the starter motor.DB
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:57 PM   #41
ildahl
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Drone,
I am running with three bags of lead shot when empty in the trunk of my EZS car. They don't move around at all.
Lance


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Old 10-11-2012, 08:11 PM   #42
DRONE OP
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Originally Posted by ildahl View Post
Drone,
I am running with three bags of lead shot when empty in the trunk of my EZS car. They don't move around at all.
Lance
Lance--of course I'm familiar with your gorgeous 1100LT rig having been the one who posted it up here last March when it first got put up for sale. I think I commented when you bought it. Or did I PM you? Anyway, I can guarantee that your rig has never been on a road as bad as the ones I consider my bread and butter! I have to pack my trunk full every time I go out or pack in some pillows if there's any extra room just to keep stuff from flying around while I'm bouncing down the road.

As for putting ballast in the trunk, my trunk is outside the tipover triangle. Sure, I'd rather have extra weight there than in the nose, but still it's best for me to put the ballast under the seat where it's near the sidecar wheel and inside the triangle.

With your rig, the car is so low to the ground already, and with leading links, and a seat height 4" lower than me, I think your ballast in the trunk is probably OK, but still be careful accelerating out of those sharp left-handers.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:21 AM   #43
toothwater
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jugs o-sand

Drone....what i do, is use Maxwell House plastic coffee jugs filled with sand,cheap and effective and they have handles. If i remember correctly they weigh about ten lbs each and are easy to remove, which is a plus with a Terraplane and by the way, nice rig ........Mike
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:41 AM   #44
anselmo
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Trap and skeet shooters sometimes have access to reclaimed lead shot, about half price. With about 1/4 ton + of new shot from my old shooting days, I use 4-25 lb bags behind the seat on my klr/velorex outfit. It moves some, especially when being silly and scraping the left peg. I should put it in a duffel and strap it to the seat brackets. I do not remove it when carrying a passenger since the load limit is 250 lbs, I think.
Phil

I suppose, ala oil threads, that we could get into the merits of #8 vs #4 shot, and copper plated vs hi zinc.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:44 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by anselmo View Post
Trap and skeet shooters sometimes have access to reclaimed lead shot, about half price. With about 1/4 ton + of new shot from my old shooting days, I use 4-25 lb bags behind the seat on my klr/velorex outfit. It moves some, especially when being silly and scraping the left peg. I should put it in a duffel and strap it to the seat brackets. I do not remove it when carrying a passenger since the load limit is 250 lbs, I think.
Phil

I suppose, ala oil threads, that we could get into the merits of #8 vs #4 shot, and copper plated vs hi zinc.
Oh, please no! Next thing ya know we'll get booted to the basement!

Getting back to this idea described on page 2--

Ballast

I think this would work on a metal tub, or a heavy-duty fiberglass tub that doesn't go into the backcountry. But on a fiberglass tub like mine, the sides of the tub are not designed to carry this kind of load. I think that with all the flexing and bouncing -- I'd destroy the tub. But I don't see a problem with mounting the post vertically on the floor.

I'm actually kinda amazed at how strong my DMC tub already is. Sometimes I'll look over at it when I'm going over washboard (usually at way too fast a speed) and the vibrations going from the road to the frame to the tub are incredible. Try it sometime. Hit some washboard fast and look over at the tub. It's an eye-opener.
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