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Old 10-13-2012, 07:44 AM   #31
DAKEZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
R.I.P
Accidents like this are a good time to review the basics. Use your high beams when it’s legal, wear bright reflective clothing, assume you are not seen and slow down at intersections while covering the brakes.
There are no guarantees but you can do everything to lessen the chances.

... And add LATERAL MOTION! (if you want their brains to see you... If not, carry on and take your chances)


Any rider that rides straight down the road where other vehicles might cross his/her path is ASKING FOR A COLLISION.

There are a number of vision studies that back this up. Weave and live to ride another day.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:14 AM   #32
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It always sucks to see a fellow rider down.
Just try to remember it comes with the territory when you choose to ride.

If you feel compelled to ride with your high beams on, don't be lazy, at least have the decency to drop their aim a few degrees. They will stand out just as much without the glare, and you won't compromise the ability of others to observe their environment (that includes you) and obscure others from their view.
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Old 10-13-2012, 11:46 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post

if you feel compelled to ride with your high beams on, don't be lazy, at least have the decency to drop their aim a few degrees. They will stand out just as much without the glare, and you won't compromise the ability of others to observe their environment (that includes you) and obscure others from their view.


YUP.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dogsroot View Post

My best defence, other than vigilance and an itchy brake hand, are my high beams

I have ridden over 5 years w/ them on, day and night.

Have never had a single person flash their lights at me for it.

I do keep my headlights aimed a little lower than normal though.
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
... And add LATERAL MOTION! (if you want their brains to see you... If not, carry on and take your chances)


Any rider that rides straight down the road where other vehicles might cross his/her path is ASKING FOR A COLLISION.

There are a number of vision studies that back this up. Weave and live to ride another day.

Dakez knows what he is talking about. The rest of you have offered mostly useless
information which is in some cases worse than useless because some noob might
take your poor advice ( eye contact ? WRONG. What matters is what the vehicle DOES, not what
the eyes of the driver do ) and pay with his or her life.

If you want to live, read and heed what Dakez wrote. If you choose to ignore good advice, be
sure to check the "organ donor" box when you renew your license, and buy as much life insurance
as you can afford so your family will be taken care of when you are gone.

There is only one thing that matters, and that is survival. Dakez has knowledge which could save
your life, but you have to pay attention to what he has to offer before you can benefit.

.

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Old 10-13-2012, 06:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
If you feel compelled to ride with your high beams on, don't be lazy, at least have the decency to drop their aim a few degrees. They will stand out just as much without the glare,

WRONG.

A constant high beam won't be noticed by drivers except when it blinds them.

What gets noticed is a target which is obviously moving. A constant high beam
doesn't do this, and it is not an effective tool for increasing your visual presence.

You need to listen to Dakez and quit posting misinformation which will do more harm than good
when riders mistakenly trust that what you wrote will enhance their safety, which it will NOT.



.
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:53 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corndog67 View Post
You can blame the driver, say lock him up for 100 years, no license for 5 years, whatever, but you've got think that it couldn't have been malicious. Some of you are ready to fry the driver. Well shit, a couple of times over my lifetime, I have pulled out in front of bikes, I truly did not see them. And I've been riding for real close to 40 years. It was an accident, could've happened to any of us, at any time. From both sides of this accident.

It would be a different story if he was texting, drunk, or did it maliciously. But it doesn't say anything about that. As it is, the guy has to live with it for the rest of his life. For most people, that is a terrible thing to live with.

Be safe out there.

My condolences to the riders family.
+1

I tend to agree with ya, corndog67, that it probably wasn't malicious.

I have to say I'm 50-50 on this one. Half of me says, this is a terrible mistake that the driver will have to live with forever. The other half says, this is vehicular homicide and the driver should be punished severely.

RIP.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sNotTheBike View Post
WRONG.

A constant high beam won't be noticed by drivers except when it blinds them.

What gets noticed is a target which is obviously moving. A constant high beam
doesn't do this, and it is not an effective tool for increasing your visual presence.

You need to listen to Dakez and quit posting misinformation which will do more harm than good
when riders mistakenly trust that what you wrote will enhance their safety, which it will NOT.
I agree,
Using high beams, modulators, high viz, and other visibility gimmicks are questionable crutches at best, you have no way to know when they are not having the desired effect. If done poorly they can be counter productive, there is such a thing as too much attention. Just like how accidents can cause accidents by distracting a drivers attention.

On the other hand, enhancing your visibility, if done thoughtfully will help communicate your presence to good drivers who are paying attention, the same as lateral motion or using your turn signals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
If you feel compelled to ride with your high beams on................................................
Notice what I wrote? I'm not recommending it, I'm not looking to start a debate, I'm only saying if you do it, do it intelligently.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:42 PM   #38
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I understood what you meant.

But then we usually agree for the most part anyway.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:12 AM   #39
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Finger pointing aside in regards to drivers, that particular intersection is a known meat grinder; bikes, cars, trucks whatever all get devoured there. Currently there are flashing yellow signals and not a proper 4-way stop as what it should be. Nothing is guaranteed, but the current situation there has proven itself in-effective and needs to be properly addressed.
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Wy'east screwed with this post 10-14-2012 at 09:13 AM Reason: added more
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Old 10-14-2012, 10:44 AM   #40
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Being on-site at the accident I can tell you the lighting was diffused and poor. The accident occurred early morning around ~6:45am with a foggy type overcast. Light fog patches were in the area (meadows around airport) at ground level but not really a factor at intersection.

I feel bad for both victims of this accident.

Personally I don't trust any cager, I expect them to pull in front of me and ride accordingly.
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:28 PM   #41
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I'm seriously considering the amber Krista's. (My wallet begs to differ tho..)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f5h1...e_gdata_player

they bolt right on, replacing the stock lights... fit OEM electricals from what i see...the amber one's would hugely improve my being seen (from the front anyway)... I've seen them in person, and they'd really set u apart from other oncoming traffic.. tho not sure about daily driver legality...state to state..

looking at the rear brake LED flashers too, as these bikes are pretty invisible from behind... as are most bikes stock.

agree with all... it's no guarantee.. and best advice just mentioned... don't trust any cager.

RIP ...cycle rider.. sending my thoughts with the family.

enjoy each day.




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Old 10-15-2012, 07:26 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGSROOT View Post
SHIT!!!!'





RIP, unknown Buell Rider.

It brings years to my eyes to hear of this.

It also raises my ire, doGdammit!!!

Does any jurisdiction anywhere on this planet teach that the left hand turning idiot is the number one cause of motorcycle fatality?

Fucking idiots.

My best defence, other than vigilance and an itchy brake hand, are my high beams

I have ridden over 5 years w/ them on, day and night.

Have never had a single person flash their lights at me for it.

I do keep my headlights aimed a little lower than normal though.

Any time I "test" my high vs low beams in a windows reflection, I am very happy w/ the results.

Of course, a couple of PIAs (or airplane landing lights!!!) would also be of service...

Hate to say it, but when I go, I'd prefer it to be on my bike than any other way.

Quote me on that at my wake, YFFs.

Happy Trails, unknown Buell Rider.

The problem is the brighter your lights are the harder it is for oncoming traffic to tell how far away you are and how fast you are going. It can make the problem worse. You can partially blind them and they will lose they depth perception, even in broad daylight. If they dont see your low beam they will not notice you no matter what you do.

I have caught myself almost pulling out in front of rider a few times. It isnt that I didnt see them it was that it was hard to judge their speed and distance from me. You watch them for a bit and it seems as they are moving slow and a ways off then you look the other direction and when you look back to pull out they are right there, it can be a little scary for both sides. The straighter the road the worse it is and stops at the top of hills seem to make it hard to judge speed. Motorcycle are a small target and can be hard for a person to get a good read on. The weave approach seems to be the best one yet.

dirtrulz screwed with this post 10-15-2012 at 07:36 AM
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:07 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtrulz View Post
The problem is the brighter your lights are the harder it is for oncoming traffic to tell how far away you are and how fast you are going. It can make the problem worse. You can partially blind them and they will lose they depth perception, even in broad daylight. If they dont see your low beam they will not notice you no matter what you do.

I have caught myself almost pulling out in front of rider a few times. It isnt that I didnt see them it was that it was hard to judge their speed and distance from me. You watch them for a bit and it seems as they are moving slow and a ways off then you look the other direction and when you look back to pull out they are right there, it can be a little scary for both sides. The straighter the road the worse it is and stops at the top of hills seem to make it hard to judge speed. Motorcycle are a small target and can be hard for a person to get a good read on. The weave approach seems to be the best one yet.


I do like the weave approach for left turners, and cars entering the roadway.

This video details it really well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQBubilSXU&sns=em

It also explains "looming" and the "camouflage" effect.

All good stuff.

In the looming bit, he explains why oncoming traffic cannot effectively judge your speed or distance.

Part of the problem is a motorcycle's' narrow profile.

A triangle of lights is certainly superior to merely putting on your (lowered) high beam.

I'll have to get on that this winter...

A brightly lit motorcycle weaving would be more conspicuous than a dimly lit motorcycle weaving.

The hypothesis you present that a correctly aimed high beam would contribute to looming,

or somehow blind folks in daylight, seems rather flawed to me.

Especially since I stated that I aimed my beam lower, and have never yet had anyone

flash their high beams at me at night.

In addition, I ride a lot of highways around here, and like to add conspicuity there too, to alert drivers to my presence.

Can't really be weaving down the highways for hours at a time.




I'd end up getting breathalyzed a lot.











.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:26 AM   #44
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The problem I have with running brights or modulators is now all the driver sees is a spot of light, they ignore the rest of your bikes profile. A bright spot of light looks the same at 20 mph and 1/4 mile as is does at 50 mph and 1/8 mile. During the daytime they need as big a picture of your bike as possible to accurately determine speed and distance. If they are too blind to see your headlights on dim they will likely ignore them on bright too.

Night time is another story, your headlight will just blend in with all the other headlights around you dim or bright. I try not to ride blocking the lights of cars behind me, then you will just look like any other car on the road, I want them to at least see three lights pointing at them and then maybe they will figure out something is in front of the car. Riding at night for me is the worst, especially if the road is wet. Too much reflected light. I only ride at night in traffic if absolutely necessary.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #45
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It doesn't matter whether or not the driver saw the rider, or whether the driver was negligent. It doesn't matter if the rider had the right-of-way, or if he had running lights, or if he wore Hi-Viz clothing. The rider is still dead. May he RIP.

Anytime a rider allows himself to be in the position where he might come in contact with another vehicle at speed, irrespective of who's at fault or who had the right-of-way, . . . the rider is rolling the dice and putting his safety at risk. Per the Law of Gross Tonnage: The heavier vehicle always wins.

If these kinds of tragic accidents are even going to stop, it will only happen when riders stop putting themselves in situations where such a collision is possible.

Personally:
I would not have been in the left hand lane, the right lane offers more time to see what the truck driver was going to do.
I would not have ridden past that left-turning truck that quickly. It appears that the force from the collision spun the truck more than 90°.
I would have tried to have followed another vehicle through the intersection (he in the left lane, me back slightly and in the right lane) such that the vehicle I was following provided protection from any left-turning traffic.
I don't believe anything other than good judgement and well-honed skills keep me alive around other traffic.

My condolences to the rider's family and all involved. It's another senseless death.
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