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Old 10-30-2012, 02:23 AM   #211
Sierra Thumper
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Thumb Nice post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by smilin jack View Post
Yes, Honda should go back to basics and take a very reliable small engine like the 250cc twin from a Rebel/Nighthawk ( I ride a 250 Nighthawk with 35K miles) and put it in a nice tubing dual sport frame with good travel suspension and good disk brakes and a NICE seat.

My CB250 Adventure bike (city cruiser with knobbies) gets over 75 mpg and will hold 60 mph for a whole tank. The CB250 has a poor seat, poor brakes and suspension but a GREAT ENGINE. The little twin has the pistons going up and down together but firing out of sync. It develops 20hp and sounds good.





These two photos are from a solo camping trip in central Oregon desert. Mostly ride the DR650 now with better handling etc.



This is from a solo winter camp out near Fort Rock, Oregon.

Just my 2 cents worth of input... small bikes can do it.

Dave
Awesome post Dave, you've exemplified the point that its not so much the adventure in the bike, its the adventure in the rider. The machine just gets you to the awesome places you want to be......right on
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:39 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by RebelYell View Post
Why did Honda get rid of the Water cooled XR 650R anyway?
Because when they brought out the crf450 everybody started buying those, way lighter and fast as hell, they were being raced in supercross/motocross and got all the attention.....the xr650r wasn't selling well enough to keep around

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter Pewterschmidt View Post
Updating the air cooled single really can't be done. Air cooled motors are about to go the way of the two stroke because emmisions regulations are to stringent now. They run hot and they use fuel as a form of coolant to cylinder temps down, thus spewing out a lot of bad exhaust. That's why the carburation and smog equipment strangle the XR so much. As with any air cooled bike it's the same story. Harley's make a bunch more power when tuned, so do the Ducati L twins, and it's because they're tuned as lean as they can get out of the box otherwise they wont meet emmisions requirements.

It's time for a new bike. I'm not going to a dealership to buy a new XR650L that's basically my XL600R with an electric starter, a rear disk brake, and bigger forks.

Honda, just take the XR650R, change the chassis to suit, put road bits on it, keep the forks it's got, and sell it as a duel sport. I'm baffled as to why this didn't happen yet. Like back in the day Honda used it's new race single in the road bike FIRST. The XL600R came out in 83 and the XR600R didn't arrive until 1985. Now it's like the XR650R came out first in 2000 and like 13 years later and we're still waiting for the road version. Dafuq?
Whats strange is the europeans have an xr650r dualsport available (called something diff over there tho), they've had them for years.......for whatever ridiculous reasons they just don't import them to the U.S.
They actually have lots of cool bikes we don't get......
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:41 PM   #213
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how did I forget about this bike: http://www.ajpmotos.pt/index.php/en/...e/products/pr5

Basically a knockoff xr250r powerplant in a chassis with updated suspension and brakes. Has efi and weighs 250lbs.

Honda has all the parts to make their own variation, I would think that the xr400 estart (400ex) or 650l stuffed in a crf250r/x chassis would still have things in the 250lb range and the 650l already meets 50 state emmissions. I know that others have already mentioned doing similar using the trx700 engine (686cc with efi and e-start based on the xr650r powerplant) instead, that should be possible while staying under 300lbs.

I could see a bike like any of these being a jack of all trades. Light/ fast enough to be an excellent offroad only bike, durable/ reliable enough for use as a daily driver/ traveling bike, cheap enough to be appealing to most anyone.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:27 PM   #214
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Honda should offer a dual sport version of the XR650R. Update to fuel injection, add electric start, and work out the transmission gear ratios for true dual sporting and call it good. HONDA ARE YOU LISTENING? I would buy one today, I'd buy one even with a carb if the transmission ratios were geared correctly for dual sport use. I'd speculate that others would too. I can fix suspension issues but not internal tranny ratios, that's out of my league as well as the wallet!

Suzuki almost got it with the DRZ400S for dual sporting but totally blew it with the close ratio 5 speed. I can buy bikes all day long with close ratio transmissons. Dual sporting needs a little more flexability from 4th to 5th gear for the highway stretches. A 6th gear would be great but I'll compromise with a wide ratio 5 speed! I'm looking for a dual sport with a wide ratio gear box, not a race bike with a close ratio transmission. Is that too much to ask? There are better bikes out there if you want to ride hard. I'm interested in a dual sport that can cover a few miles on the highway then have a decent gear spread in the lower gears for the woods once I get there. I'm not racing.

The 250s are cool with 6 speed gear boxes but... I'd like a little more than 250cc for the distances I would like to cover.

There, I feel better!

bearcat1 screwed with this post 11-02-2012 at 06:14 AM
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:19 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
Honda should build a 1981 XL500. I had one, 20 years later, and it was the best dual sport I've ever had by far. Way better than the KLR650 and XR650L, and I'm assuming the DR650 as well. Unfortunately the PO had not treated it well, and the engine blew up. And as is typical for Honda, I could not get parts to fix it.

I'm agreeing with you. Didn't have the XL500. Did ride a 1975 XL350 and it was a great ride. Had a 1982 Suzuki SP500 and it had plenty of power. Wish I had either one today.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:49 AM   #216
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I remember some bikes I had in the past being as good, if not better than some I had in later years... Until I rode them again...

Brakes, suspension, power, and handling are a lot more crap than I remember them.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:00 AM   #217
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Ditto. My 85 XL600R was a fun, fast and reliable motorcycle. But I got to ride it again after a couple of years on more modern bikes. I walked away thinking it was pure unadulterated crap.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:05 AM   #218
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A 250lb, 650cc with both a kick & button start, that comes with soft luggage, adjustable windscreen, gets 80 MPG, has knobby tires that get 10,000 miles, but can still stick to the pavement like glue and does not look like it's been designed by a blind epileptic and costs $5000 OTD.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
I remember some bikes I had in the past being as good, if not better than some I had in later years... Until I rode them again...

Brakes, suspension, power, and handling are a lot more crap than I remember them.
Hell, I remember that every time I jump off my DR 650 and jump on my 690.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:57 AM   #220
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I'm another that would like to see big H put the TRX 700 engine into a dual sport to replace the XR650
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:03 PM   #221
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My only concern with a new XRL is it will be a turd off road. Just like jetSki's and everything else as of late, bigger seems to be better in the eyes of manufacturers, or maybe just more profitable.
Then it hit me, the best XRL is an owner updated one to fit your needs, so in reality the new XRL is here.

In my opinion, if Honda makes a new dual sport to replace the beloved XRL, or even update it, chances are it will be some type of huge ass ADV fire road only bike somewhere between a GS and a Tiger, or maybe closer to a Goldwing with 90%on/10% off road tires.

I hope not, but that's what my money is on any new Honda DS.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:33 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canoli View Post
A 250lb, 650cc with both a kick & button start, that comes with soft luggage, adjustable windscreen, gets 80 MPG, has knobby tires that get 10,000 miles, but can still stick to the pavement like glue and does not look like it's been designed by a blind epileptic and costs $5000 OTD.
And makes 100 hp with super long service intervals...

Seriously though, these bikes you guys are talking about sound good but there's just not the market for them. Yes Honda could possibly make them and sell them for a profit but they will make way more money selling big fat tourers that can handle the odd pot hole or high performance enduro bikes. In companies like that there are things like target profits and volumes.

Even on here where there are relatively like minded individuals spec-ing their dream bikes there are (of coarse) different ideas on what the ideal new dual sport should be.

Looks like you guys are going to have to build them yourselves.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:06 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Hell, I remember that every time I jump off my DR 650 and jump on my 690.
Hey, the 690 isn't that bad!
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:58 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra Thumper View Post
Because when they brought out the crf450 everybody started buying those, way lighter and fast as hell, they were being raced in supercross/motocross and got all the attention.....the xr650r wasn't selling well enough to keep around

Whats strange is the europeans have an xr650r dualsport available (called something diff over there tho), they've had them for years.......for whatever ridiculous reasons they just don't import them to the U.S.
They actually have lots of cool bikes we don't get......

The problem with the XRR was that Honda designed it for a single purpose and that was Baja. It was designed for desert racing in the US and Mexico. Then Honda corporate withdrew from Baja racing for several years and the Feds under DiFi closed off vast tracks of the California desert, which in turn, caused sales to plummet. Oh, and also Commiefornia stopped plating dirt bikes for dual sport, which killed another market. Why they didn't keep the XRR and plate it is a mystery to me too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Letter J View Post
how did I forget about this bike: http://www.ajpmotos.pt/index.php/en/...e/products/pr5

Basically a knockoff xr250r powerplant in a chassis with updated suspension and brakes. Has efi and weighs 250lbs.

Honda has all the parts to make their own variation, I would think that the xr400 estart (400ex) or 650l stuffed in a crf250r/x chassis would still have things in the 250lb range and the 650l already meets 50 state emmissions. I know that others have already mentioned doing similar using the trx700 engine (686cc with efi and e-start based on the xr650r powerplant) instead, that should be possible while staying under 300lbs.

I could see a bike like any of these being a jack of all trades. Light/ fast enough to be an excellent offroad only bike, durable/ reliable enough for use as a daily driver/ traveling bike, cheap enough to be appealing to most anyone.
That is a cool bike

You mention the XRL is smog legal, which is true. However, it is only true because it is a legacy model that if introduced as a new model would not meet smog standards. Which, is also a problem for any air cooled engine nowadays. This also affects Europe with their smog nazis too.
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Old 11-07-2012, 12:28 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Kawidad View Post
The problem with the XRR was that Honda designed it for a single purpose and that was Baja. It was designed for desert racing in the US and Mexico. Then Honda corporate withdrew from Baja racing for several years and the Feds under DiFi closed off vast tracks of the California desert, which in turn, caused sales to plummet. Oh, and also Commiefornia stopped plating dirt bikes for dual sport, which killed another market. Why they didn't keep the XRR and plate it is a mystery to me too.




That is a cool bike

You mention the XRL is smog legal, which is true. However, it is only true because it is a legacy model that if introduced as a new model would not meet smog standards. Which, is also a problem for any air cooled engine nowadays. This also affects Europe with their smog nazis too.
Thats prolly why they don't seem to want to change the xrl.....I've been out of dirt bikes for 15 years, when I picked up my 04 xrl I was shocked to see the EXACT same bike in my local dealers showroom as a 2012, and I was even more shocked that its the same basic platform from 1993 Kinda nice to be able to pick and choose the colors of plastics from diff years to customize it tho.....and parts are dirt cheap and aftermarket support is still very good

With some simple and inexpensive mods its a great dual sport. Mines been completely derestricted/desmogged/full carb mods/slide drilled/desnorkeled/filter/slip-on exhaust and suspension revalved, and its an awesome offroad bike now....great suspension, TONS of handy torque, instant throttle snap, and still winds up nice and quick. All the power I can use offroad and then some, and thats at 5000 to 8000+ft up. Plus its super simple and reliable, and low maintainence, which I like alot
Its still a pretty good bang for the buck, especially if you don't need cutting edge tech......prolly why they haven't changed it yet.
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