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Old 11-15-2012, 10:53 PM   #226
Llamaha
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It's hard for them to build fast lightweight dual sports because of the strict environmental laws in Japan, remember this is the country that first adopted the Kyoto protocol (who believes this nonsense really). I think that's probably why they never updated the DRZ400 with fuel injection, WR gearbox and a 6 speed because they'd probably have to pass the emissions tests again.

Thankfully it doesn't really matter because Yamaha have the WR250R which is just delightful...
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:45 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llamaha View Post
It's hard for them to build fast lightweight dual sports because of the strict environmental laws in Japan, remember this is the country that first adopted the Kyoto protocol (who believes this nonsense really). I think that's probably why they never updated the DRZ400 with fuel injection, WR gearbox and a 6 speed because they'd probably have to pass the emissions tests again.

Thankfully it doesn't really matter because Yamaha have the WR250R which is just delightful...
I'm kind of at a loss as to how you reason that it's hard for them to build fast lightweight dual sports because of their environmental laws. I don't really see causation there. I became even more confused when you say that it's probably why the DRZ400 didn't get fuel injected. As far as I know it's probably easier to get a fuel injected bike to pass emissions standards than it is for a bike with a carb. If their laws are so strict then I'd think they'd have to retest every time they made any kind of change to an engine, fuel or exhaust system, maybe even every so often even without changes just to make sure no one is cheating. Just how hard is this emissions test? Wouldn't it just be measuring for certain things in the exhaust gas? There are a lot of places where you'd have to get that checked annually (as a private vehicle owner) and have to pay for it. I'd bet that Honda or any major manufacturer has that stuff sitting around, well not sitting as such. I bet they use it and know that things will pass the sniffer check before they ever send it to the government for the official test.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:48 AM   #228
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If I had to guess the biggest reason why Honda can't or won't sell the same kinds of street legal offroad bikes as the Europeans it would be warranty. Specifically our EPA mandated emissions parts warranty. Just like your car, those parts have a separate warranty.

KTM and others are EPA small manufacturers. Which means they don't play by the same EPA rules as the big boys. As of 2008 they have to meet the same exhaust requirements. But, AFAIK, they do not have to meet the same emissions parts durability standards.

Plus, as nearly as I can tell, there are no product liability lawyers at KTM. Honda lawyers slather their milk toast dual sports with all manner of warning labels. So imagine those same lawyers at a company selling high performance street legal bikes as "Ready to Race".

That said, there is still no reason why their 250 has to weigh as much as my decade old 640 . Well, I guess there is. They want to be the least common denominator in the dual sport market. They want to sell ten thousand cheap bikes. The Europeans want to sell a thousand expensive bikes.
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Grreatdog screwed with this post 11-16-2012 at 07:22 AM
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:56 AM   #229
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Suzuki said they are going to "focus on the DS market." An updated DRZ400s or a new DRZ500s might give the big four the kick in the rear to take the DS market a little more serious. As someone looking to buy a newer DS in the next 2-3 years, one can only hope.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:05 AM   #230
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Suzuki is the only Japanese brand I have never owned.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:17 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
Suzuki is the only Japanese brand I have never owned.
And your proud about that ?

I've only owned one KTM , and don't plan on another any time soon.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:25 AM   #232
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Proud?

Zoom right over your head.

My point, since it apparently requires being somewhat more obvious, is that I am not brand loyal. I would buy a Suzuki in a heart beat if they offer something better than what I have. They hang a license plat on the old 450Z and they might tempt me into giving one a whirl.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:24 AM   #233
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Proud?

Zoom right over your head.

My point, since it apparently requires being somewhat more obvious, is that I am not brand loyal. I would buy a Suzuki in a heart beat if they offer something better than what I have. They hang a license plat on the old 450Z and they might tempt me into giving one a whirl.
Sorry , I missed it. I'm not brand loyal either.

Except for Toyota trucks.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:09 AM   #234
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Quote:
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Suzuki is the only Japanese brand I have never owned.
What brand is the XT200 in your signature? Sounds like a Japanese Yamaha.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:53 AM   #235
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"Suzuki is the only brand I have never owned" means I have owned Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. So, yes, the museum piece that I use to remind myself of how badly bikes used suck is in fact a Yamaha.

Man, y'all PUI already or what?
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:14 AM   #236
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XLV 750............................................... ........mixed with...........................FMX 650
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
"Suzuki is the only brand I have never owned" means I have owned Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. So, yes, the museum piece that I use to remind myself of how badly bikes used suck is in fact a Yamaha.

Man, y'all PUI already or what?
I read it too fast. "never". I will probably be PUI later this evening after a couple of margaritas.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:27 PM   #238
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You can also wish for a rocket 3 dual sport....




Quote:
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XLV 750............................................... ........mixed with...........................FMX 650
.........................
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:30 PM   #239
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I really like my CRF250L and plan to rack up some serious miles on it. In the near future 1-2 years I'm going to be looking for something a little more serious. I know there is no perfect bike. With the sales of the CRF250L being what they are I would imagine that Honda will be looking to build a bigger version in the future. The CRF250L has been a great seller so far due to the price vs performance. I would bet Honda would follow that same path for a bigger version. List what you would be looking for in a bigger bike let's say priced at 6,899.99.

Here is my CRF350L

30-35 whp on a dyno
FI
Low end torque
Dot trials tires
short ratio box with OD 6th for freeway riding
comfortable seat
low vibrations at 65-75mph
real suspension tuned for woods say showa twin chambers off a CR
maint schedule like the WR250R
electric start
low seat height
rear rack standard

I don't mind a steal frame as long as the weight is kept in check.

all honda had to do was add an electric start to the XR650R... i know on my side of the world it would be the perfect dual sport
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #240
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Get rid of the epa and problem solved back to street legal 2 smokers Hopefully a affordable one thats simple to work on.KISS Honda.
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