KTM 500 - Less is more?

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by guns_equal_freedom

Seriously? I have owned an 07 KTM XCF-W 250, a 10 EXC 530, an 11 XC-W 300 and I now own a 13 XC-W 500 and I have never had any issues with those items.

Same here,if those are issues with these bikes its new to me,had lots of KTM's. Butter soft wheel spacers? What kind of butter? Ive had em last years and still be good.

[Weldit]

the wheel spacers on my 09 530 had the chrome plating all peel up which toasted the wheel seals
once the plating peeled they corroded fast - only 50 hrs on bike - they looked like 10 years old
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I went with some spacers from all balls -they have a hardened steel sleeve where the seal runs
the aluminum spacers were soft on my xr650r also - wore deep groves where seal ran
we ride a lot of mud here - so that may make a difference

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by Weldit

the wheel spacers on my 09 530 had the chrome plating all peel up which toasted the wheel seals
once the plating peeled they corroded fast - only 50 hrs on bike - they looked like 10 years old
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I went with some spacers from all balls -they have a hardened steel sleeve where the seal runs
the aluminum spacers were soft on my xr650r also - wore deep groves where seal ran
we ride a lot of mud here - so that may make a difference

I dont remember chrome plating on the wheel spacers on my dirt only KTM's,that seems odd to chrome such a thing but if you say they are then it must be so.

[guns_equal_freedom]

Originally Posted by Weldit

I went with some spacers from all balls -

Everything I have ever used from All-Balls has been All-Crap.

Spacers and bearings that didn't fit my 07 XCFW 250.

[Weldit]

Originally Posted by guns_equal_freedom

Everything I have ever used from All-Balls has been All-Crap.

Spacers and bearings that didn't fit my 07 XCFW 250.

I wondered about all-balls bearing quality too but only time will tell.
Stock bearings only lasted 2900 km and were toast - seals failing was a factor here ?
all balls fit was perfect and the wheel spacers were awesome - even have an o-ring
inside to seal to axle which should help stop water getting in.
the hardened seal surface will last long and only adds a tiny bit of weight !
see them here 2009 KTM 530EXC All Balls Front Wheel Spacer Kit | MotoSport
kind of like a speedy- sleeve on the old small block chev harmonic balancers
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as to stuff that didn't fit ? - thought KTM used same bearings for all dirt bike wheels 125- 530 ?
maybe someone packaged wrong stuff ?
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might not have been "chrome" but there was a plating that peeled up and was nasty sharp
on my stock spacers - maybe it was a hard surfacing or something ?
still have them laying in a box somewhere - not serviceable at all.
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later........

[header]

I used to fight poor sealing performance like this nearly every ride. On my XRR I found the solution was to replace the spacers with hardened ones and replace everything at the same time and fill every nook and cranny with waterproof grease. Then replace everything altogether.

On my 04 EXC I got the best results from regular maintenance. Cleaning out the old grease and getting new stuff in there. The spacers I had weren't hardened but keeping good grease in there helped alot.

Now on my 08 EXC the spacers were updated along the production line between 04 and 08 and have a much better sealing surface and I haven't had a hard time yet but I still take the axle out and clean and grease it after every couple of rides and after EVERY muddy ride.

Throughout this I had some premature bearings that let go way too early but my biggest incentive was stuck axles. Its no fun working on stuff when you can't even get the wheel off

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by guns_equal_freedom

Everything I have ever used from All-Balls has been All-Crap.

Spacers and bearings that didn't fit my 07 XCFW 250.

So its not just me,I put All-Balls ft wheel bearings in my DRZe,danged if the ft wheel didnt still have slop in it side to side.

Then without much thought I put the same brand of bearings in the ft wheel on a 200 KTM,had the same slop the DRZe had.

I can only wonder what the use is of bearings that have play right out of the box? Some one in China knows.

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by header

I used to fight poor sealing performance like this nearly every ride. On my XRR I found the solution was to replace the spacers with hardened ones and replace everything at the same time and fill every nook and cranny with waterproof grease. Then replace everything altogether.

On my 04 EXC I got the best results from regular maintenance. Cleaning out the old grease and getting new stuff in there. The spacers I had weren't hardened but keeping good grease in there helped alot.

Now on my 08 EXC the spacers were updated along the production line between 04 and 08 and have a much better sealing surface and I haven't had a hard time yet but I still take the axle out and clean and grease it after every couple of rides and after EVERY muddy ride.

Throughout this I had some premature bearings that let go way too early but my biggest incentive was stuck axles. Its no fun working on stuff when you can't even get the wheel off

It always seems to me that water is the real enemy with wheel bearings and the spacers/dust seals. Water can get in most anywhere and takes fine dirt/silt with it.
It can wreck the dust seals over the bearings like grinding paste,then the spacers rubbing against the dust seals are subject to the same paste at pretty high speed,cleaning and greasing of course helps,maybe having extra dust seals and popping them in from time to time. Ive submerged bikes/wheels in nasty waterholes with river silt in them and had the wheel bearings die the next ride,they're dirt bikes,its just what happens.

[header]

Originally Posted by Foot dragger

It always seems to me that water is the real enemy with wheel bearings.

I agree, mudd is bad when it gets packed behind things and starts pushing on stuff but otherwise its the water in the mudd that wears stuff out. Thats why I think having the new spacers and regular cleaning did the best.

[header]

Originally Posted by Foot dragger

So its not just me,I put All-Balls ft wheel bearings in my DRZe,danged if the ft wheel didnt still have slop in it side to side.

Then without much thought I put the same brand of bearings in the ft wheel on a 200 KTM,had the same slop the DRZe had.

I can only wonder what the use is of bearings that have play right out of the box? Some one in China knows.

I know all ball's is made in China but they use pretty good materials from the factory. You sure your hub(s) hasn't lost any material?

[espressodrinker]

I wonder if one could just remove the dust seals completely and put a grease nipple in the middle of the hub?
A few pumps of grease after a muddy ride would force new grease into the bearings and get rid of the water.
This used to work back in the day on bicycles.

[Tarheel Wheeler]

Ned, Great thread as usual! Thanks for all the useful info and well thought out accessory plan.

Question...Since you're using this bike as a single track - woods scalpel, was wondering if you looked at the 350 XCF-W when you considered new bikes? If you rode a 350, would be interested in hearing your thoughts when comparing it to the 500 XC-W.

Again, thanks for all the great info.

[neduro]

Originally Posted by Tarheel Wheeler

Question...Since you're using this bike as a single track - woods scalpel, was wondering if you looked at the 350 XCF-W when you considered new bikes?

I did, I actually got to ride a 13 for a full day guiding at the CO 600.

First, the 350 rips. It lacks torque, but even at 8k feet, it would usefully accelerate above 70mph, which I was amazed by. But, you have to really spin for it- not much torque down low, and while it's darn fast up top, you better be on your game and tap dancing on the shifter.

In the woods, it handles great, but it took a higher level of commitment than I enjoy. I've always been a big-bore guy, meaning I ride best when I'm not shifting all the time and rely on the torque of the engine. The 350 doesn't do that, it has plenty of go, but you will shift 3x more than on the 450 or 500 to go the same speed down the trail.

Finally, the bike felt physically small to me- I dragged the pegs in places I didn't expect to, and the length of the cockpit seems a bit shorter than the 450/500.

What that boils down to is 100% personal preference. I prefer the bigger bore/ bigger bike, and that isn't really a knock on the 350 at all. I think the only place it came up short is for real dualsporting- gearing and revs would be an issue if you were doing lots of pavement/ boring dirt.

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by header

I know all ball's is made in China but they use pretty good materials from the factory. You sure your hub(s) hasn't lost any material?

If the bearings were wobbling in the hub it would be pretty obvious and wouldnt last long. It was bearing play on both bikes.

[Foot dragger]

Originally Posted by neduro

I did, I actually got to ride a 13 for a full day guiding at the CO 600.

First, the 350 rips. It lacks torque, but even at 8k feet, it would usefully accelerate above 70mph, which I was amazed by. But, you have to really spin for it- not much torque down low, and while it's darn fast up top, you better be on your game and tap dancing on the shifter.

In the woods, it handles great, but it took a higher level of commitment than I enjoy. I've always been a big-bore guy, meaning I ride best when I'm not shifting all the time and rely on the torque of the engine. The 350 doesn't do that, it has plenty of go, but you will shift 3x more than on the 450 or 500 to go the same speed down the trail.

Finally, the bike felt physically small to me- I dragged the pegs in places I didn't expect to, and the length of the cockpit seems a bit shorter than the 450/500.

What that boils down to is 100% personal preference. I prefer the bigger bore/ bigger bike, and that isn't really a knock on the 350 at all. I think the only place it came up short is for real dualsporting- gearing and revs would be an issue if you were doing lots of pavement/ boring dirt.

Im of the same mind,shifting lots doesnt help much with trail concentration,bigger bores usually leave you with a choice of gears for any given situation.
I had an 06 400EXC and even it was a little weak off the bottom for cliff climbs with no run at them,it would also get hot and stall at the damndest of times. My 530 takes no notice of most climbs,just a matter of pointing it the right way.