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Old 10-19-2012, 12:21 PM   #16
MODNROD
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I rekn the difference is whatever the rider at the time thinks it is.

Some bikes don't like conveniently wrapped boxes. I like this particular scoot, I think it's a scoot personally coz I sit down, put my feet up, roll into the throttle and start looking for traffic gaps.........I have a scoot mindset as soon as I get on.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:00 PM   #17
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I think a flat floor while desirable is only possible on a smaller engine scooter. It is my opinion that as traditional scooters grow in size, with weight biased towards the rear, handling is compromised. I don't know that this is a fact as I am not an engineer but I am hearing of stories of how sensitive heavy loads are affecting handling. I don't know of one maxi that has a flat floor.

I have heard nothing but great things about the tranny.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:47 PM   #18
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It is my opinion that as traditional scooters grow in size, with weight biased towards the rear, handling is compromised.
It is true. Handling and structural integrity of the chassis are also compromised by the flat floor, which is why you won't find ANY scooters with completely flat floor above 500cc (and only one 500cc, namely Scarabeo)

As for the Integra. I test rode it and I liked it quite a bit but I also thought I'd prefer one of the other models in the family, either S or X. Why? Because Integra is so compromised as a scooter with its high middle section (no way you could step-through that one, you throw your leg over like you would on a bike) and very small storage space I think you might as well get the proper motorcycle... which in case of S and X will actually have *more* storage space than the Integra! The only advantage the Integra has is possibly in its better wind protection which is not a major issue for me.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't despair about lack of Integras on your market - if you are interested, (and you should be because it's a cool machine!) just get an S or X model with DCT that is available in your area... you won't be missing out on anything.

ferrix screwed with this post 10-19-2012 at 07:57 PM
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ScootTour View Post
I have reciently been educated that the difference between scooter and motorcycle is not the CVT (which is what I always thought) but rather the placement of the engine.
A completely unnecessary compartmentalization, which allows folks to feel secure by pigeon-holing stuff. If one looks at Wikipedia on scooters, it says most, many, generally or typically but never always, must or all.

Hope this helps,

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:09 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ferrix
IThe only advantage the Integra has is possibly in its better wind protection which is not a major issue for me.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't despair about lack of Integras on your market - if you are interested, (and you should be because it's a cool machine!) just get an S or X model with DCT that is available in your area... you won't be missing out on anything.
I'll admit straight away that I am biased and much prefer fully-faired touring bikes to naked machines.
I would not buy a 700cc machine and then ride it at speeds where I would not need a fairing.
If the machine were for urban use I would get a scooter around 250cc or for longer journeys, cruising at 70 or 80 mph, something with a fairing.

There seems to be a lot of mixed reactions to Honda's implementation of the DCT in a lightweight machine. Those coming from a motorcycle background, as opposed to those from a scooter background, find it quite unsettling when the gearbox makes a change mid-way through a corner. This appears to less of an issue on the VFR1200 and the driver of a DSG automobile would hardly notice it at all.
In the end one has to test ride the machine to see whether one's riding enjoyment is affected.

Is there room in the US market for both the Silverwing and the Integra? Would a dealer stock both?
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:12 AM   #21
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Those coming from a motorcycle background, as opposed to those from a scooter background, find it quite unsettling when the gearbox makes a change mid-way through a corner.
I come from a motorcycle background yet I had no problem with DCT. Yes, you can hear it 'clunk' sometimes but most of the time the changes were smooth enough so they didn't bother me. I suspect this has more to do with one's riding style - I am a conservative rider and always try to leave myself a wide margin for error. If you're more inclined to ride at the edge of ability, yours or the machine's, unexpected change of gears could be more unsettling.

But this bike is not meant to be ridden like that, which is OK because those who are inclined to ride like that will not be attracted to this bike in the first place.

In any case, if you want to have some fun in the corners you can always put DCT into the manual mode and shift with the paddles.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:02 PM   #22
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I'm a conservative rider too.
Most times nowadays I stick my boot on the front of the running board so I can feel with my toe before I can hear the scraping sounds.

Just as an aside, the DCT on these rides is VERY smooth, REALLY good. And yes, I prefer the Integra to the traditional m/bike for the seating position and the excellent wind protection at all speeds I rode on, that and the general smoothness of the DCT is what I noticed most initially.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
It actually looks more motorcycle than scooter. To me a scooter must have a flat floorboard.
So what are Vespas?
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:42 PM   #24
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. My Genuine Stella has a flat floorboard,.
Did you take a hammer to it?
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:50 AM   #25
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Any rumors on if or when the Integra 700 may be here in the U.S.?
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:23 AM   #26
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I was looking at the NC700X DCT ABS, list price US $8499.00. I would think that the Integra with DCT ABS would be priced pretty much the same, maybe $500.00 more. I do not see that Honda has offered a 2014 Silverwing as of yet, maybe there is a change coming. Honda is closing out their 2013 Silverwings with big discounts, this could be the reason.

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Old 10-24-2013, 03:29 PM   #27
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was told by my dealer that very soon aka December 2013 to feb 2014 a newer 750 variant of all the models will be coming, increased power from 35kw to 50kw so basically 60bhp plus, watch this space, probably see them at the eicma show!
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:00 PM   #28
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This Honda Integra appears to me to be a re-bodied NC700/CTX700 with DCT.

Although there isn't a true definition of what a scooter is, I feel Honda ruined the spirit of what a scooter is by taking the lazy route and just re-body a proper motorcycle. This is unlike BMW's C600/C650 which seem more like scooters with their CVT transmission and a spacious under seat storage.

I would much prefer a CTX700n instead of the Integra due to there not being much of an advantage of owning an Integra over a CTX700n but what intrigues me is the DCT trans. If Honda can miniaturize the DCT and be able to put them in a smaller scooter, lets say 150cc-250cc size, then I'd feel it would revolutionize the scooter scene.

If you watch a video of a scooter's CVT in action and also ride a scooter with a CVT trans, you would notice that a CVT is really only a 2-speed trans.

I have a Kymco Super 8 which I attached a digital tach to so I could monitor what RPMs my scooter is in. Before I made a timing adjustment, I would notice that accelerating from a dead stop, my RPMs would shoot up to 6500 RPMs, then slow down to about 6300 RPMs and hang there for a second before it builds up enough power to move up the RPM range. This is the point at which "second gear" is engaged. If this were a true CVT, the RPMs would shoot up to around 8000 where peak power is, stay there and then the CVT would do the accelerating. And then when up to speed, the CVT would make adjustments to lower engine RPM. This is how an Automobile's CVT works and it works like this because there is a computer controlled hydraulic arm that actuates the CVT belt. A scooter depends on a Variator, it's weights and the clutch torque spring to try and vary the RPMs without any computer control. This gives the scooter rider no control over what the CVT does and we're at the mercy of it.

This DCT from Honda could revolutionize scooters by giving us true 5 forward speeds and the ability to downshift while climbing a hill. Hell, a DCT trans scooter might give some motorcycles a run for their money.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:00 PM   #29
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Spirit of Scooter?

Since there is no law of scooters, it can not be violated. If someone made a Harley with the full fairing for weather protection, auto transmission, and smoothness of my Silverwing, I would ride it whether you call it a Scooter or not. And you can call my Silverwing a motorcycle if you like, as it is that also. Bikes are scooters and scooters are bikes. They only differ in their features, or lack of them. What's ONLY important is that you enjoy your ride.
CVT's aren't two speeds, if they were, the engine speed would have to come down to shift into second. What is happening is the engine has reached a point where it has enough torque to accelerate the bike without increasing significantly in RPMs. When it reaches a point where the bike is traveling with the pulley ratios maxed out, it will then only accelerates with an increase in engine RPMs. When the engine seems like it has stalled in increasing it's RPMs watch the speedo, it will be increasing still as the CVT is steadily changing the ratio.
When I first got my Silverwing, it certainly felt like it had a flat spot, until I watched the speed increasing during this lull in the engine's increasing speed. With that said, the manufacturers build the roller ramps with a changing slope which may be thought of or advertised as a two speed, but, a CVT is more of an infinite speed transmission. CVT stands for Constant Velocity Transmission, because ideally, the engine speed would remain constant and only the pulley ratios would change according to the torque needs.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #30
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"Since there is no law of scooters, it can not be violated. If someone made a Harley with the full fairing for weather protection, auto transmission, and smoothness of my Silverwing, I would ride it whether you call it a Scooter or not."

Good for you dude.

"And you can call my Silverwing a motorcycle if you like, as it is that also. Bikes are scooters and scooters are bikes. They only differ in their features, or lack of them. What's ONLY important is that you enjoy your ride."

I never called your Silverwing a motorcycle and I frankly don't really care. Also, please don't determine what is and isn't important to me. I'm old enough to determine those things for myself and only myself and I have no expectations of you to agree and I am not going to push my beliefs onto yourself.

"CVT's aren't two speeds, if they were, the engine speed would have to come down to shift into second. What is happening is the engine has reached a point where it has enough torque to accelerate the bike without increasing significantly in RPMs. When it reaches a point where the bike is traveling with the pulley ratios maxed out, it will then only accelerates with an increase in engine RPMs. When the engine seems like it has stalled in increasing it's RPMs watch the speedo, it will be increasing still as the CVT is steadily changing the ratio."

Yes, the speed is still going to climb when you have the accelerator pegged but I was talking about RPMs. Since I have a digital tach, I could see that my scooter would accelerate quickly to 6500 RPMs, then drop to 6300 RPMs and then climb from there. Even though my RPMs go down, the speed is still increasing the whole time but at this "Shift" point, the scooter isn't accelerating as quickly.

"the manufacturers build the roller ramps with a changing slope which may be thought of or advertised as a two speed"

WTF are you talking about? I've never seen a scooter ad featuring "roller ramps with a changing slope" ever mentioned and even if they did, who would assume that it made the scooter a 2 speed?

"a CVT is more of an infinite speed transmission."

No it isn't, every CVT on earth has a lower and upper range of ratios. It's never infinite.

"CVT stands for Constant Velocity Transmission, because ideally, the engine speed would remain constant and only the pulley ratios would change according to the torque needs."

Even by your own admission is that the engine speed would remain constant while the CVT is what's adjusting. This was what I was saying all along. If my scooter did this, than I would observe my tach shoot to 8000 RPMs, stay there and the CVT is what is providing motion but it doesn't do that. Like I said, it shoots to 6500 RPMs, goes down to 6300 RPMs and then climbs from there up to 9000 RPMs.

Do you even have a tach on your scooter?
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