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Old 03-16-2013, 08:30 AM   #1
chaos616 OP
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LC4 Adventure Water Pump

Quick Backstory, I have two KTM 620/640 Adventures, ones a 98 and the other a 2001. I am prepping the bikes for RTW coming up in a little over a year.

The 2001 is almost fully prepped to go and the 620 just took a crap on me. I either blew a head gasket and or water pump seal and or broke a ring (TBD).

This thread is to get opinions on water pump alternatives for the lc4. when replacing the 2001 pump, i could see the shaft wearing out, bearings crunchy, seals worn, etc.

The problem is that I don't want to have to replace the pumps seals/shaft all the time when there is a little problem (common enough considering my 620 is leaking posssibly too).

What I am considering is a different water pump (probably electric) which is self contained outside the engine. I thought about electrical draw on the somewhat lacking electrical system, I have dual H.I.D. on the 640 and will on the 620 (35w a piece) so I save some power there. There are controllers to make some of the pumps only run on 10% power or whatever is needed for cooling.

I think i have narrowed it down to one of these pumps from davies craig (no affiliation, just seem like good pumps):
Here is the control unit:


Here is the booster pump (4 g/min):

Honestly I think this is my best option ( I will just have this pump set to ignition so it just runs when I turn the key on, low power draw of 2 amps or so.

and the EWP 80 (up to 21 g/min):

Benefit is its controllable as far as speed and power usage (but thats a lot of water).

Also Here is one of the bikes I am considering this for, the 620:


The other bike (girlfriends) that I am considering this mod on, the 640:


Let me know what you think and if there are other options, has this been done, have you done anything like this.

Cheers
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chaos616 screwed with this post 03-16-2013 at 05:47 PM
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:54 AM   #2
wrk2surf
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I would keep the proven stock pump.These pumps may not fit underneath the tank so you would have to block off the passage with a plate like the 660 rallye then find a place for the aftermarket unprooven unit and splice it in.. Why not just carry an O ring, bearing and shaft ? That is the beauty of the 620-640 most of the bearnings and maintanance can be done or found in 3rd world country's.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:04 AM   #3
Droptarotter
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Hi;
I think you will be adding too many additional parts to an already crowded motorcycle. By crowded, I mean there are not many places to put additional accessories.
You will have a hard time finding a place for the water pumps, not to mention routing the water hoses so they are out of harms way.

I think you would be better off starting with a fresh water pump and carrying a spare.

If you do install the bits you are interested in, post photos please.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:34 AM   #4
gunnerbuck
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I would tend to agree with the guys on staying with the stock pump over going electric... You could also go the rally bike option where the pump drives off a shaft where the counter balancer sits but this would likely be very expensive as you need the new cover, drive gear hardware and the pump itself...

For blocking the old pump position off you could pull the guts out of the old pump and then install a bolt, washer, some rubber sealing washers and a nut to where the shaft once was.. Tighten the assembly up to pinch the rubber washers and reinstall the pump body to the original location...
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:38 AM   #5
Sparrowhawk
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How do you plan to plug the big hole on the left side of the rocker cover without the stock water pump in place?

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Old 03-16-2013, 05:45 PM   #6
chaos616 OP
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Hey, Thanks for the replies, and some good questions and comments.

Wrk2Surf - yes, the maintenance really isn't hard if you have the parts, i just like the idea of not taking parts with me. I was thinking if i were going to use these bikes to 100,000 miles, how many times would I have to change the parts out/how many parts would I need? But your right, mechanical is usually more reliable than electric etc...

Droptarotter - yeah, crowded is kind of an understatement for sure, The plan would involve the original pump being completely gone, but even then space is at a premium for sure. Again with the parts, but i am kind of crazy about making stuff as low maintenance and spare parts free, but i take it too far sometimes.

gunnerbuck - that is interesting about the rallye, didn't know that...i learned something today...and i agree it would be prohibitively expensive most likely. For a blocking plate i took measurement, as soon as i draw it up, i will post, but basically it would use the stock KTM rings and everything but be solid and missing the pump part. It would be a fancy filler plate basically. But thats a good idea bout the rubber and bolt, i was trying to think how I could do that for the short term.

sparrowhawk - i think the above might have answered your question about my idea at least, but other ideas are always welcome.


The one thing I am really worried about with the whole project is of course the electrics and how easy it is to get pump parts (obviously they would need to be ordered) but then why don't i just order KTM parts...

Really it comes down to reliability and function with respect to cost and amount of energy being put into rebuild. Please keep the comments coming, good stuff...
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:38 PM   #7
gunnerbuck
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The part # for the 660 rally blocking plate to fill in the water pump space is 58536065000 ... This part is listed as non current but you may still find it in an online part search ...
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:03 PM   #8
bmwktmbill
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You will have to replace the cam followers at 20K miles so do the pump at the same time. You need to do a major service every 20K anyway.

Do the oil only and the air filter every 5, oil and filters every 10, oil again at 15 and a major every 20. I'd do the suspension front and rear every 50.

You really don't have any choice. You will ned tires and chain-sprockets every 20 ?

100K is around the earth 4 times.
bill
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:11 AM   #9
Kawidad
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:52 AM   #10
Low594
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Interesting idea! The block off would be relatively easy, as stated previously. I only see 2 hose bungs on those pumps, what would you do with the other 2 hoses? I think you would need to gut the stock pump and leave it in place, so that you are not redesigning the water flow design. This wouldn't save you anything at that point. I'd just keep the factory setup. It's not bad, with good bearing installed!

I believe I detailed the aftermarket bearing I used, in my thread.
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:00 PM   #11
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
You will have to replace the cam followers at 20K miles so do the pump at the same time. You need to do a major service every 20K anyway.
bill
This. The parts required to rebuild the waterpump would almost fit in a matchbox & it's easy to do. Just take shafts & seals if you want to be minimalist as the bearings are a common size.

Cheers
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Old 03-17-2013, 10:14 PM   #12
Sparrowhawk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos616 View Post
Really it comes down to reliability and function with respect to cost and amount of energy being put into rebuild.
This is exactly why I would stick with OEM mechanical. Rebuild parts are cheap, small, and readily available. The pump is known to be reliable for tens of thousands of miles and it's an easy afternoon job to rebuild (plus a couple days to sit back and let the sealant dry). Taking the rocker cover off to rebuild the pump gives you a chance to inspect the upper roller bearings before failure.

On the other hand, reliability of the electric pump is unknown, trouble shooting problems could be difficult, replacement parts or the entire pump or control unit may not still be available when the time comes, and carrying a spare would be bulky. The other trick is knowing that the pressure and flow from the electric pump is right for the job.

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Old 03-18-2013, 05:43 AM   #13
chaos616 OP
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Thats interesting about the part number for a block off plate, i suppose they used the same cylinder and head, so they had to block the hole too.

bmwktmbill, I know you've done some serious traveling on these bikes, and it seems like you've made it through with the stock pump fine. And yes, I do actually have to do a top end job here on the 2001 anyway, so I suppose you just either carry parts or when traveling order the parts when a full maintenance job is due...

low594, yes there are 4 hoses, it would need some y pipes and such to get working, that is the real issue is making a couple joints that would be reliable as to not blow off hoses and loose all your coolant...in the middle of no where.

hmmmmmm... Well well see what happens i suppose, my 620 motor just gave up the ghost...kinda...it still runs but now well, lots of water in the engine (water pump?) and lots of chunks on the drain plug, going to look for a better motor and or a newer bike for the big trip. The trip will consist of me and my better half on our own bikes (KTM's).

SOunds like not many people if anyone has put electric pumps on their bikes, it seems to be popular with the sportbike crowd, especially hayabusa crowd, but who knows.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:26 AM   #14
gunnerbuck
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I wouldn't mind seeing a first E-pump test case in action on the LC 4... A RTW trip would certainly make a good proving ground one way or the other... I would recommend carrying all the rigging needed to put the OEM pump back in action in case of failure...
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:45 PM   #15
Seikkailu_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
I wouldn't mind seeing a first E-pump test case in action on the LC 4...
First time, really?


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