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Old 12-13-2012, 03:23 AM   #1366
Prutser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERU View Post
May be i didn't make my self very well understood. [poor english]
Steering damper is not only good for stability at high speed, but its stronger point is that it allow you to keep the handlebar in your hands when you hit some obstacle like a boulder or a high root, and allow you to remain at vertical position when the front wheel is in a ditch and the back wheel is in a diferent one.

@ W
I ride a BMW too, but no matter what would i ride from now on i will always have a steering damper.
On single tracks I don't like to feel the damper. Try to ballance your bike with real tight steeringhead bearings !!!
(It might be personal but I don't want to feel it until the bike needs it!!! For (my)boxer thats is !!!!)

I totally agree with Walter, So many differences in bikes (and what people prefer)
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:29 AM   #1367
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Walter, you must have the world record for getting the best out of an Xc. I liked riding mine once I had done a bit to the suspension, but I never did trust it as it had let me down electrically a few times. I never did know whenever I went out if the bike would return home on the back or a tilt tray or under its own power.

The bloke who bought it from me was planning to take it up through Africa about now, I hope he does it OK.
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Old 12-13-2012, 04:02 AM   #1368
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Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I never discounted it ... just at the time (50,000 km ago) I felt I had plenty of life left in the XC and the 690 would be a big job to get one ready. The expense of building up a new bike, vs some minor tweaking on the XC at the time made it an easy choice.

Now ... after this trip ... The XC has close to 140,000 km on it now ... 2/3 off road. If I am going to keep doing this kinda travel on it, I am going to have to buy a low mileage X-moto and just swap all the modified parts over, cause too much is worn now to be economical to fix part by part. Too much of the bike needs refreshing.

This bike has had a brutal life. 140,000 km the way I treat it is amazing going.

So I m at another crossroads ... there are many possibilities in my mind.

(a) Keep my bike and do the X-moto swap ... swap my good bits over to a x-moto thats never been ridden off road and with 5000 km (3000 miles) on the clock. By the time I sell the Xmoto forks and wheels and other bits I will never need, I could have a near new bike for very little cost (only time).

(b) Keep my bike, change the engine for a new 58 hp Husky 650 rotax engine and fix all the other worn bits on the bike

(c) Use the Husaberg 570 (60 hp) which after the Andes project has so many high quality after market adventure worthy parts on it - just needs a oil cooler, luggage rack lots more fuel and a fairing.

(d) do something with a KTM 690 - late models seems to be much more reliable than earlier ones. Even now has the bigger donk with 66 hp.

Lets see what emerges next.
Excuse my Walter i realy don't want to hijack the thread with all my questions but i'm considering also to exchange my bike with one more suited to AVD riding so i have a lot of question and doubts.

So i see that you consider an important feature the hp of a bike. Do you realy use all those hp in those thechnical rides?

Did you ever consider Yamaha WR250R as an option? I know it has less hp [30] and need some mods but what bike doesn't ? As a strong point it is very light. [130 kg full]

By the way if you wanna go orange why don't you buy Rod's bike. I can feel at this point that he will sell it cheap.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:09 AM   #1369
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Great RR
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:12 AM   #1370
ROD CURRIE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERU View Post
Excuse my Walter i realy don't want to hijack the thread with all my questions but i'm considering also to exchange my bike with one more suited to AVD riding so i have a lot of question and doubts.

So i see that you consider an important feature the hp of a bike. Do you realy use all those hp in those thechnical rides?

Did you ever consider Yamaha WR250R as an option? I know it has less hp [30] and need some mods but what bike doesn't ? As a strong point it is very light. [130 kg full]

By the way if you wanna go orange why don't you buy Rod's bike. I can feel at this point that he will sell it cheap.
SELL? Who's talking about money...Free to good home.

Re: your point about horsepower.
Beginners often think more is better so go for a GS 1200 or a 950/990 Adv. For most of us its the biggest mistake you can make. Truth is most of us haven't the skill and strength to pilot that much mass through mud, deep sand etc, and given you're going to spend most (not all but a great percentage) of your time between 25 and 45 mph why would you need 100 Hp. A further truth is a bike of that size will for MOST OF US ruin your holiday as it might get get scarily out of shape on slippery downhills, it's a killer to pick up ..I could go on and on.
I 've great friend who's ridden about anywhere you can go, Stateside, Africa, Iceland on a really well prepped TTR250 and he's always able to keep up, although he admits to struggling a little over 60mph.
Mark Sampson has been anywhere you can go in the States and last time I saw a RR had traded right down to a WR250, as his riding pal says " everything over 12 hp is just wheelspin"-I've some sympathy for the statement.
For most of us the extra hp over, say 40 is an indulgence-nice to have indeed and we all love it-but nothing like as important as a light, well prepped bike. In Adv World ...Less is definitely more.
I'll maybe post a great pic of how NOT to do it when I'm on my home PC.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:51 AM   #1371
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Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I never discounted it ... just at the time (50,000 km ago) I felt I had plenty of life left in the XC and the 690 would be a big job to get one ready. The expense of building up a new bike, vs some minor tweaking on the XC at the time made it an easy choice.

Now ... after this trip ... The XC has close to 140,000 km on it now ... 2/3 off road. If I am going to keep doing this kinda travel on it, I am going to have to buy a low mileage X-moto and just swap all the modified parts over, cause too much is worn now to be economical to fix part by part. Too much of the bike needs refreshing.

This bike has had a brutal life. 140,000 km the way I treat it is amazing going.

So I m at another crossroads ... there are many possibilities in my mind.

(a) Keep my bike and do the X-moto swap ... swap my good bits over to a x-moto thats never been ridden off road and with 5000 km (3000 miles) on the clock. By the time I sell the Xmoto forks and wheels and other bits I will never need, I could have a near new bike for very little cost (only time).

(b) Keep my bike, change the engine for a new 58 hp Husky 650 rotax engine and fix all the other worn bits on the bike

(c) Use the Husaberg 570 (60 hp) which after the Andes project has so many high quality after market adventure worthy parts on it - just needs a oil cooler, luggage rack lots more fuel and a fairing.

(d) do something with a KTM 690 - late models seems to be much more reliable than earlier ones. Even now has the bigger donk with 66 hp.

Lets see what emerges next.
Or buy Prutsers airhead!!!!!!
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:03 AM   #1372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERU View Post
So i see that you consider an important feature the hp of a bike. Do you realy use all those hp in those thechnical rides?
Well I dont really do the technical rides (I am not a very good technical rider) ... I prefer the fast rides (I am better at that) .. and top speed and how quickly you get there is sometimes a limiting factor with my current bike. Thus many days out on the wide open steppes and Mongolia to come is a big part of my route. The only technical stuff I sometimes do is water crossings (their own special technique) and sand ... and with the sand the hp is actually important since you are at full throttle much of the time. Bear in mind you are not going to to get up to 130-140 km/h on the double track with a 25-30 hp bike even if you are not carrying luggage and big fuel loads etc. So if thats how I like to ride, its relevant.

Also bear in mind - Low down torque is more probably important than outright horsepower ... its nice to have an engine flexible enough to deliver power anywhere in the rev range. The Rotax engine is very good for that, as is the Husaberg. The 690 less so - you have to clutch anything less than 3000 - 3500 rpm. Maybe the 2013 bigger bore engine is better there, I havent tried it. But as Rod mentioned, the key is weight rather than hp ... having more HP is fine if it doesnt cost you in terms of weight. All of the higher hp options mentioned above as my options are the same or less weight than my current set up.

The people I know who could get away with a heavier bike like a boxer or a 950 on a trip like this (think of Prutser, Pyndon, Grom, Iker Iturregi etc) and keep up with the lighter bikes are all guys with two key characteristics ... (1) they are very good technical riders and (2) they choose the heavier bike because they particularly love their engines, and so they happily pay the weight penalty - even tho they acknowledge its a penalty - they basically cover the weight penalty with their excess of skill. I dont have an excess of skill so for me, thats not an option. I must focus on light weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERU View Post
Did you ever consider Yamaha WR250R as an option? I know it has less hp [30] and need some mods but what bike doesn't ? As a strong point it is very light. [130 kg full]
I didnt no, but friends have used it as an adventure bike, one of them last year (2011) riding it from London to Magadan. It not only did the job, but did it very well and completely trouble free. While he loved the bike and it was super reliable, he did mention there were times (Kazakhstan, Mongolia) when more power would have been nice.

The wet weight of 133 kgs with fuel is OK, but its 9 kgs heavier than the fuel injected Husaberg 570 (124 kgs wet weight) I already have, which has twice the power, similar reliability and service requirements, and much better (and longer travel) suspension out of the box. So if I want a light adventure bike I will use the Husaberg.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:14 AM   #1373
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Originally Posted by Stashek View Post
Or buy Prutsers airhead!!!!!!
THATS SOMETHING HE SHALL NEVER DO !!!!
For this type of riding the X is a way better choise.
(I'm just to stubborn to admit )
And I have one, but will still take the ST
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:27 AM   #1374
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Originally Posted by Stashek View Post
Or buy Prutsers airhead!!!!!!
It'll never happen. Different strokes for different folks. Ergonomics totally dont work for me (bike was designed before the word ergonomics was invented). Footpeg - Seat - Bars are all in the wrong places for my comfort. I took it for a spin a while back and came back swearing with very bruised shins - from kicking the cylinders all the time. And even tho he has got it down to 170 odd kgs, its still a heavy lump compared to the other bikes there. On top of that it drinks up to 30% more fuel too, to ride at the same speed in the same group. Rear suspension is something Prutser found a limiting factor at speed ... the massive unsprung weight (hub, final drive, drum brake etc) mean the back wheel just cannot follow terrain like a normal back wheel - especially at speed. Rear wheel travel is also much more limited than on a chain drive bike. Prutser tolerates those rear suspension limitations because he loves the engines.

I think airheads are an acquired taste. Prutser loves them - despite all of the above issues ... I dont. Riding an airhead like that is much more of an art form ... requires special skills (and back and shin deformation) that I have no intention of ever learning.

I am happy having Prutser along in the group demonstrating that artform as part of the crew, but he knows I will never fall for the bike
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:30 AM   #1375
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Why don't I see anyone wanting to try out a 200 kgs , 35 hp KLR 650. :
Really loving the report and info on the bikes.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:31 AM   #1376
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Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I never discounted it ... just at the time (50,000 km ago) I felt I had plenty of life left in the XC and the 690 would be a big job to get one ready. The expense of building up a new bike, vs some minor tweaking on the XC at the time made it an easy choice.

Now ... after this trip ... The XC has close to 140,000 km on it now ... 2/3 off road. If I am going to keep doing this kinda travel on it, I am going to have to buy a low mileage X-moto and just swap all the modified parts over, cause too much is worn now to be economical to fix part by part. Too much of the bike needs refreshing.

This bike has had a brutal life. 140,000 km the way I treat it is amazing going.

So I m at another crossroads ... there are many possibilities in my mind.

(a) Keep my bike and do the X-moto swap ... swap my good bits over to a x-moto thats never been ridden off road and with 5000 km (3000 miles) on the clock. By the time I sell the Xmoto forks and wheels and other bits I will never need, I could have a near new bike for very little cost (only time).

(b) Keep my bike, change the engine for a new 58 hp Husky 650 rotax engine and fix all the other worn bits on the bike

(c) Use the Husaberg 570 (60 hp) which after the Andes project has so many high quality after market adventure worthy parts on it - just needs a oil cooler, luggage rack lots more fuel and a fairing.

(d) do something with a KTM 690 - late models seems to be much more reliable than earlier ones. Even now has the bigger donk with 66 hp.

Lets see what emerges next.
Walter I know where there's an X Challenge, 07 model with 2100 miles which may be for sale.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:32 AM   #1377
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Originally Posted by GSD4ME View Post
Walter, you must have the world record for getting the best out of an Xc.
Terry is now up to about 90,000 km (55,000 miles) on his X-Country. Again with a ton of high speed off road use. He is up there too. His bike is at about the stage of wear when I last stripped mine down and redid the rings and bearings in the engine 2 winters ago. So wont surprise me if he does something similar this winter.

We both had a few rides on Beamsters low mileage X-Country and the difference in the feel of the engine is really significant. Her bike feels like its supposed to feel. Feels way way tighter. The comparison only serves to remind you how old your own bike is getting and the age is not only on the clock. It is in the feel of the engine, the give in all the bushings and bearings all over the bike etc
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:02 AM   #1378
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Walter I know where there's an X Challenge, 07 model with 2100 miles which may be for sale.

STAND BACK BOYS! Its a stampede!!
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:38 AM   #1379
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Originally Posted by ROD CURRIE View Post
SELL? Who's talking about money...Free to good home.

Re: your point about horsepower.
Beginners often think more is better so go for a GS 1200 or a 950/990 Adv. For most of us its the biggest mistake you can make. Truth is most of us haven't the skill and strength to pilot that much mass through mud, deep sand etc, and given you're going to spend most (not all but a great percentage) of your time between 25 and 45 mph why would you need 100 Hp. A further truth is a bike of that size will for MOST OF US ruin your holiday as it might get get scarily out of shape on slippery downhills, it's a killer to pick up ..I could go on and on. In Adv World ...Less is definitely more.
+1...great insight. I know quite a few owners of the big GSs who would never consider venturing off pavement.

BTW...this is a terrific RR.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:40 AM   #1380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
It'll never happen. Different strokes for different folks. Ergonomics totally dont work for me (bike was designed before the word ergonomics was invented). Footpeg - Seat - Bars are all in the wrong places for my comfort. I took it for a spin a while back and came back swearing with very bruised shins - from kicking the cylinders all the time. And even tho he has got it down to 170 odd kgs, its still a heavy lump compared to the other bikes there. On top of that it drinks up to 30% more fuel too, to ride at the same speed in the same group. Rear suspension is something Prutser found a limiting factor at speed ... the massive unsprung weight (hub, final drive, drum brake etc) mean the back wheel just cannot follow terrain like a normal back wheel - especially at speed. Rear wheel travel is also much more limited than on a chain drive bike. Prutser tolerates those rear suspension limitations because he loves the engines.

I think airheads are an acquired taste. Prutser loves them - despite all of the above issues ... I dont. Riding an airhead like that is much more of an art form ... requires special skills (and back and shin deformation) that I have no intention of ever learning.

I am happy having Prutser along in the group demonstrating that artform as part of the crew, but he knows I will never fall for the bike
True dat! Different strokes for different folks. I love the thought of Prutzer doing this on an Airhead, but deepdown I know it's the wrong bike (Even though I'd be hard-headed and stubborn enough to try it!). I've hiked the complete Appalachian Trail, and the one big take-away is exactly as you said ... weight. I cut the handle off my toothbrush to save weight. I went without a tent ... to save weight. The same philosophy is being described here ... I hadn't really thought about it in these terms, but it makes complete sense to me.

It sounds to me like the WR250 is perfect ... if it had 10 more hp.

PS - I still love my Airheads ... even though they gulp the gas, bruise my shins, and handle like a rubber cow

Fantastic Report!!! Keep it coming!!!
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