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Old 04-06-2014, 10:53 PM   #1
Yellowledbetter OP
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R1200RT Stumbles - Can you help?

Hoping some of you good folks might be able to help source a problem I’m having with my 2007 BMW R1200RT. I initially though I had purchased bad gas several weeks ago when the bike first started idling rough and becoming a bit sluggish. I ran a couple of tanks of fuel injector cleaner and HEAT through it to remove any possible water in the gas. That seemed to help initially, but later it began showing worse symptoms. I’ll do my best to describe it but I am at a loss for the right word. Around 3700 RPM it begins a subtle “misfiring” where it “surges” & then “cuts out” (like it’s hitting a rev limiter). I changed the spark plugs to OEM NGK dual ignition iridium from BMW. No luck. I then changed one of the upper stick coils. No luck, so I switched it to the other side. Still no luck. Today I replaced both lower ignition coils. It seems to have improved slightly, but is still present. It seems to be semi-intermittent. It happens more in 5th and 6th gear between 3700 and 4300 RPM, though sometimes happens in lower gears less frequently in the same rev range.

It is subtle but obviously noticeable and new at 97K miles on the bike. I doubt it will leave me stranded on the side of the road so I am still riding it, but it sure is annoying. I’m not sure what to do next. Fuel pump? I tried to buy a fuel filter but these bikes have permanent filters that are not intended to be changed. Just a wondering thought today too was whether an O2 sensor could cause these symptoms. I’m obviously grasping at straws. Does anyone here have any helpful suggestions? Many thanks in advance.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:28 AM   #2
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Try plugging in a GS911 to see if there are any error messages. Check throttle bodies and do a TB synchronization. Are the Bowden cables moving smoothly and are they sitting in the right spot?
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:47 AM   #3
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a "permanent" fuel filter can still get clogged. Is the stumble related to how much throttle you're giving it and it gets worse when you're keeping your wrist twisted (like you would in 5th gear going uphill)?

I'd be tempted to pull the fuel pump from the tank and check the screen filter; after 97K miles it's probably got some buildup.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:36 AM   #4
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Thank you both, great suggestions. I wasn't even aware of the gs 911, so I should add one to my tool kit regardless. I'll have to crack open the service manual and see what's involved with the tank removal, but looks like another Sunday afternoon project. Maybe I just need to order up my new RT.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Yellowledbetter View Post
Thank you both, great suggestions. I wasn't even aware of the gs 911, so I should add one to my tool kit regardless. I'll have to crack open the service manual and see what's involved with the tank removal, but looks like another Sunday afternoon project. Maybe I just need to order up my new RT.
The new RT / LC is really nice. Or you could buy my 2011 RT with about 16.000 miles and I could buy a new liquid cooled RT.
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowledbetter View Post
Thank you both, great suggestions. I wasn't even aware of the gs 911, so I should add one to my tool kit regardless. I'll have to crack open the service manual and see what's involved with the tank removal, but looks like another Sunday afternoon project. Maybe I just need to order up my new RT.
I am not sure if you know this and if your bike is involved, but I received a recall letter from BMW last week. It is for the repair or replacement of the fuel-pump / fuel pump flange.

It involves many bikes including 2005 - 2011 R-models. If yours is involved you may be able to have BMW do it for free
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:36 PM   #7
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I'm not a big BMW guy but this is a list of common issues with FI on motorcycles I usually see.

Fuel pressure. Weather its the pump itself, clogged filter or a torn line, fuel pressure is crucial. This usually wont throw a code.
Clogged injectors. Bad gas, old gas, water in the gas. Lots of things can clog the injectors. Its my experience that the over the counter fixes never work and sometimes make things worse. This usually wont throw a code either.
Various sensors. TPS, MAP, Temp, crank, cam sensors can cause issues but these usually throw codes.
Battery voltage. SOMETIMES if your charging system or battery is having issues your voltage can drop too low to facilitate proper FI operation, mainly spark and it can seem like a fuel issue. I DOUBT this is the case though.

Judging by your symptoms I would go with a pressure/pump issue. Unless your bike isn't stock there aren't that many more things that will cause these symptoms.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:22 PM   #8
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Until you get a GS911 and look for faults, you might try to see if it occurs in a certain throttle/acceleration range (i.e. mixture range). I'd be surprised for it to be a fuel pump issue if it happens within only a band of throttle opening.
That said, O2 sensor, whatever that thing on the exhaust pipe does might be a couple of other places to start.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:23 PM   #9
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Odds are high that one of the secondary stick coils are bad. Unplug them one at a time, just the wire going to them, and when you find no change, that is the bad one.

It could be the pump, but that is super rare!
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Odds are high that one of the secondary stick coils are bad. Unplug them one at a time, just the wire going to them, and when you find no change, that is the bad one.

It could be the pump, but that is super rare!
Thanks Jim. I already ruled out the coils by changing both secondary coils with new ones, and also one of the primary coils to each side. Blast!
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 74C5 View Post
Until you get a GS911 and look for faults, you might try to see if it occurs in a certain throttle/acceleration range (i.e. mixture range). I'd be surprised for it to be a fuel pump issue if it happens within only a band of throttle opening.
That said, O2 sensor, whatever that thing on the exhaust pipe does might be a couple of other places to start.
Yes, it seems to happen between 3700 and 4300 RPM, intermittently. That's why I had moved past the dirty fuel as a culprit. Though I do think LBS Bandit is maybe on to something with the fuel pressure theory.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Flying Frisian View Post
I am not sure if you know this and if your bike is involved, but I received a recall letter from BMW last week. It is for the repair or replacement of the fuel-pump / fuel pump flange.

It involves many bikes including 2005 - 2011 R-models. If yours is involved you may be able to have BMW do it for free
Thanks Frisian - Yes I did receive that campaign notice also. I read it though to center on a fuel leak issue that affects some bikes around the flange, rather than fuel pump functionality itself. I am certain I have no leaks, so doubt that particular repair will help my most immediate issue.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowledbetter View Post
Thanks Frisian - Yes I did receive that campaign notice also. I read it though to center on a fuel leak issue that affects some bikes around the flange, rather than fuel pump functionality itself. I am certain I have no leaks, so doubt that particular repair will help my most immediate issue.
Some of the repairs include a complete fuel pump. You could get lucky.

I still do not think that is your issue.

I assume you have a proper valve setting and throttle body sync at 2500 rpm?
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBS Bandit View Post
I'm not a big BMW guy but this is a list of common issues with FI on motorcycles I usually see.

Fuel pressure. Weather its the pump itself, clogged filter or a torn line, fuel pressure is crucial. This usually wont throw a code.
Clogged injectors. Bad gas, old gas, water in the gas. Lots of things can clog the injectors. Its my experience that the over the counter fixes never work and sometimes make things worse. This usually wont throw a code either.
Various sensors. TPS, MAP, Temp, crank, cam sensors can cause issues but these usually throw codes.
Battery voltage. SOMETIMES if your charging system or battery is having issues your voltage can drop too low to facilitate proper FI operation, mainly spark and it can seem like a fuel issue. I DOUBT this is the case though.

Judging by your symptoms I would go with a pressure/pump issue. Unless your bike isn't stock there aren't that many more things that will cause these symptoms.
Sounds like good advice. I would check for codes with a GS911. If nothing turns up, prior to connecting a fuel pressure gauge, I have heard of pulling the injectors, one at a time, and turning on the ignition to spool up the fuel pump (disconnecting the headlight will cut down on current drain), and activating the injector for a minute, letting it spray into a container. Check for a good spray pattern while your doing it. Then measure the qty of fuel sprayed out to compare flow against the injectors rating (cc / min?). I can't remember how you get the injector to turn on, grounding a lead? Maybe someone else can chime in on that.

My 1150rt required a fuel filter replacement after the emissions charcoal canister contents migrated to the tank (probably after "over filling"). A canister-ectomy ensures that will never happen again.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:40 AM   #15
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Check that the screen on top of your injectors is clean.
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