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Old 10-20-2012, 07:05 PM   #1
LandsVW OP
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Thumb 1986 XR600R Basket case - Hope to revive!

I bought, cheaply, (ok, 100$) a 1986 XR600R a few weeks ago. PO had had the front timing chain guide break during a start attempt. Nothing was damaged but the piece fell down and jammed the lower timing chain sprocket so the bike wouldn't turn over. So, he disassembled. He got the right side apart, and to the point of realizing that the gearshifter was also welded on (in an ugly big way) - and he quit. So there it was on craigslist (listed as a 1989 XR650 for some reason). Anyway, this thread will be my tribute to bringing this bike back to life. At least, that's what I'm hoping...

I cut the gear shift lever off. I then opened the case and pulled it out. I ordered the shift shaft and lever (and received) from ebay. I'm waiting on an aftermarket (read cheap) gasket kit from Israel. I also ordered a new chain guide. I will assess the chain and whether it is stretched or not when I reassemble. I also found some light galling on the piston pin. I ordered (new) that as well. I guess that would be the one area I'm a little worried about, but will take a chance for now. If it knocks, or has other bad things happening because of that, I'll reassess the situation. Maybe they ran it low on oil once? I don't know. Everything else inside the engine looks amazingly clean and well oiled. I am going to put it together, pre oil it, and hopefully it will be fine. If it smokes, or has engine noises, then I'll just take it apart.

That's the way I got it.
Here's where it's at now:



No workbench, but my wife donated a few older but clean sheets. I doubt she's going to want them back...
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:13 PM   #2
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good luck!

I had a similar project with a 86 xr'250, The biggest obstacle was finding parts as I'm sure your slowly finding out.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:36 PM   #3
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Replace the timing chain. Check the transmission gears for pitting and replace if there is any. Try to replace the timing chain sprockets too. Of course replace the timing chain guides. I have a couple of them and a bunch of other XR600 parts from a 1985 XR600. You or somebody like you should have me ship all the xr600 parts to you for cheap. Get new rings and have a machinist micrometer measure the cylinder and piston and advise a rebore or hone and new rings. The gasket kit you are ordering will likely NOT include the proper rocker box gasket, so make sure to order that from Honda or someone stocking genuine Honda parts. That is the one important gasket to have, any other one will have your cam bearings improperly torqued and/or leaking rocker box. Also go ahead and spray that gasket with copper coat in an aerosol can and it will never leak. It is the most temperamental seal in the entire engine. Also be sure to install the cam chain tensioner with great care. It is a sensitive device. Go ahead and buy a new spring for it, it is not externally adjustable, so be very nice to it and treat it like a beautiful woman you're about to make love to all night long. Or something like that. The valves should at least be removed and lapped with a valve lapping compound and washed thoroughly. Remember you can reassemble the transmission without a gasket and test shift it before final assembly. Also check the kickstart idle shaft bushings. I had one of those making wierd noises once, and the shaft it rode on (main or counter transmission shaft) was pitted. I have a ton of XR600R 1985 parts if you want them, just pay shipping plus tip. Look forward to the build.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #4
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thanks for the info

I actually have the metal valve cover gasket, so will reuse as suggested. I think I will reassemble the cylinder and head before I make a decision on the timing chain. If timing marks line up and no stretching is evident, I'll just go ahead and use. The engine was in a bucket so I had no way to determine that before. Everything inside looks amazing! clean and shiny gears, no pitting, no scoring, etc. I'd say either low mileage or reasonable oil changes saved it. Why did the front timing chain guide break off 1 inch from the bottom? that is my only question at this time... I have ordered a new one. Anyone have ideas or seen that happen before?
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #5
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Hah! no pitting, no scoring, what kind of "basket case" is this really? Not much, looks like the only basket involved is the one full of parts. Really though, wouldn't hurt to replace that cam chain and tensioner spring. With this bike, once it's together, there's no adjusting the cam chain, and really impossible to tell if there's stretching. As for your kickstarter, here's a photo:



http://www.babbittsonline.com/honda-...K2FMK24E1400AA
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:26 PM   #6
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[QUOTE=Zombie_Stomp;19867376]Hah! no pitting, no scoring, what kind of "basket case" is this really? Not much, looks like the only basket involved is the one full of parts. Really though, wouldn't hurt to replace that cam chain and tensioner spring. With this bike, once it's together, there's no adjusting the cam chain, and really impossible to tell if there's stretching. As for your kickstarter, here's a photo:]

I think I'll soak the parts in salt water for 2 weeks, just to get some pitting/scoring if it makes you feel any better!

The kickstarter link was helpful. The one washer was superceded by another. I'll order it today.
I 'think' I can determing stretching on the chain by reassembling to that point, and verifying the marks lining up at cylinder head and timing mark on flywheel? If it's off then chain is stretched? Still debating but your suggestion is definitely being considered,and moving up the scale of 'do'.

Any ideas of why timing chain guide would break off? That's the only thing 'what has' me puzzled right now...
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:44 PM   #7
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timing chains

As far as timing chains, here's what Ebay has: Alpha brand 32$ - fits:
HONDAS 118t
XR500R (1983-1984)
XL600R (1983-1987)
XR600R (1985-1987)
XL600R (1983-1987)

Does that sound ok? The honda one is 90$.

I ordered spring and my missing washer.

I'll post a picture of broken off timing chain guide later today.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandsVW View Post
As far as timing chains, here's what Ebay has: Alpha brand 32$ - fits:
HONDAS 118t
XR500R (1983-1984)
XL600R (1983-1987)
XR600R (1985-1987)
XL600R (1983-1987)

Does that sound ok? The honda one is 90$.

I ordered spring and my missing washer.

I'll post a picture of broken off timing chain guide later today.

I did a bit of googling the Alpha YBN timing chain, doesn't sound like a very high quality chain. Hmmm... may have to bite the bullet for quality. Any suggestions?
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:59 PM   #9
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give any honda part numbers to Zanottis in pennsylvania. The web page where you can price check may be hard to find or no longer up and running, but TRUST ME on this one, they have THE BEST prices on OEM honda parts. I've ordered from quite a few places. I'd recommend just getting together all your part numbers you need and just ordering from them. The timing chain will line up the marks regardless of whether it's stretched x amount, it's a matter of sprocket tooth position. The tensioner will take up some slack, it's just a matter of how much slack it CAN take up before rattling. Same reason for replacing the spring and installing it gently. I have a method of installation for that too:

Depress the spring with vice grips, taking care not to chew up the rubbery plastic surface of the tensioner unit by protecting it with a layer of something soft. Apply a zip tie to the spring. Drop it in and install the pin. carefully cut the zip tie and fish it out. You will have had to consider how you put the zip tie on so that it can be pulled out from between where the spring touches the timing chain tunnel in the cylinder, so that it comes out in one piece instead of leaving behind a piece. Also a fish boning knife works well for cutting it, something long and slender. Wire has been used for this job also, but makes me more nervous with the potential for leaving behind metal.

When ordering the timing chain I'd recommend one that is a Borg Warner (a manufacturer). That's what Honda uses. I think the letter stamps on that ebay one are not the same as the oem. There are "private label" 'aftermarket' versions of the borg warner chain out there for less $, just check the letter stamps on the links to be sure of what you're getting.

It's definitely a strange anomaly for the chain slider to break like that. If no foreign particle was lodged in there, it could have been simply a defect or weakness in the part. Very strange. Glad you got it, and that the shift lever will be tightly clamped, maybe even loctited at the threads to prevent the kind of spline stripping that caused the welding to happen.

One more thing: Shaft seals! Replace them ALL! Especially the shifter one since heat had to have been created while you were cutting it, and burrs scraping it might have happened when you pulled it through. Others I can think of are the countershaft (sprocket output driveshaft), kick starter, and the decompression lever on the rocker box. Do them all and you'll never have another oil leak.

Speaking of leaks, some non-hardening gasket sealant will be your best bet when you are applying the base gasket on the cylinder. I used silicone, which hardens, and had one blow out. The non-hardening will maybe be silicone too, it just cures to more of a soft gel. Never had a problem after that.

Once it's all sealed up, you'll be able to use even synthetic oil if you want with no leaks. :)
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I do heavy-duty textile repair, upholstery, and design/manufacture bags.

Zombie_Stomp screwed with this post 10-21-2012 at 02:06 PM
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:00 PM   #10
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pictures of broken guide...

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/...0951885557.jpg

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/...0951886066.jpg

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/...sVW/xr6001.jpg

...and the bike

That little circlip and that bearing were in with the parts. I don't recognize them or where they might go.

Anyone think they are from the Honda?
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandsVW View Post
I did a bit of googling the Alpha YBN timing chain, doesn't sound like a very high quality chain. Hmmm... may have to bite the bullet for quality. Any suggestions?
I was just going to say, you get what you pay for.

Any idea how many miles it has on it?
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:02 AM   #12
Ivanych
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandsVW View Post
http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/...0951885557.jpg

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/...0951886066.jpg

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/...sVW/xr6001.jpg

...and the bike

That little circlip and that bearing were in with the parts. I don't recognize them or where they might go.

Anyone think they are from the Honda?
This locking ring seal crankshaft from the right cover (this is my guess).

position number #25
http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts...TCH/parts.html
This is a nice store, good prices and service. I had a lot of purchases of new OEN parts for my Honda XR500r in this store.
I recommend having a new crankshaft oil seal 91201-KF0-004 and new oil pump. These parts of the health effects engine.
Good luck.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:06 PM   #13
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Thumb

[QUOTE give any honda part numbers to Zanottis in pennsylvania. ]

I'm pretty sure Zanottis is closed as of last year. At least that is what google is telling me. I'm using Powersports plus for most of the items as well as ebay.

The circlip and ballbearing are most likely NOT part of the bike, too small. They were stuck to the magnetic tray the
other parts came in... At least I got a nice Craftsman magnetic tray out of the deal!

Just waiting on parts! if my gaskets come in I can reassemble the crankcase anyway...

I've been reading the Minsk thread as I wait. Now that is some funny stuff! Can't wait for it to continue!

Here's a picture of my Hondazuki I built last summer for the price of 'next to nothing'.



This is before I added the gas tank. The oiler bottle made a great test tank for its first ride! I hand crafted the brackets for the engine out of scrap metal. The exhaust is probably the worst part of the bike. 2-stroke exhaust, cut
modified, with water pipe involved. The engine is a 2001 XR100R. I got it for free with bent valves (because of the timing chain). That's Alaska in the background.

Back to XR600's!
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:10 PM   #14
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Question gaskets have arrived!

gaskets! crankcase reassemble maybe tonight?
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:00 PM   #15
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Hey LandsVW

You might take a look at this thread. It might come in handy.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713831
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