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Old 11-01-2012, 12:36 PM   #46
cug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
Maybe the new Triumph Trophy will fill the bill.
The interesting part here is that you say you want a lightweight bike - but you certainly define "lightweight" quite different from me.

I had a R1200GS before the Tiger 800 and it was awesome comfortable. Good wind protection (I had a GSA screen), very comfy, very good luggage. It was BIG, but it wasn't really heavy. I don't like the GSA for the sheer size and the additional weight, but the standard GS was (and is) and awesome bike.

It was also very reliable for me. I did several longer trips, not a single issue. Not one. And that's what most riders actually have. I still think that most of the
issues you read about are internet hype.

Now I have a Tiger 800, I have to say that the Tiger falls quality wise between the F800GS I had and the R1200GS. The R was excellent quality. Great fasteners, everything was well thought out and high quality and easy to maintain, the F800GS was a let down. The Tiger is between them, tendency towards the R, not the F, interesting enough. I'm very happy with the quality overall so far.

This bike has:

- kind of light weight with just ~230kg fully outfitted with Jesse Odyssey bags and all the other crap I added like engine bars, bigger windshield, ...

- enough power for me to have lots of fun, and easily enough for two up riding

- a comfortable, neutral seating position

- LOTS of room for a passenger

Unfortunately, if you carry a passenger a lot, there is no way to get around either a shock re-work or a new shock. But that's not the end of the world. Other than that, it's one of the best bikes I ever had.

I'm very often looking at the big touring rigs, I had a ST1100 back in 97 for a while and really liked, but man was that beast heavy. And it was still much lighter than most of the other bikes in that caliber today.

The most passenger friendly bike I had so far was the GS. With ESA it was super easy to setup for passenger, lots of room on the seat, lots of room for knees and feet, I had a Givi top case, but I will not carry passengers that lean back, requirement here is "you hold on to me and be an active part of this riding team or you stay home or ride your own bike or car".

What I'm trying to say is that there are bikes out there that

- are very touring friendly
- fit various definitions of lightweight (for you a Super Tenere might do the trick)
- are super passenger friendly
- can carry lots of shit while still being manageable

They just don't look like like classic touring rig from the 80s anymore. Try a Super Tenere, that thing is something like 270kg, so lightweight by your definition, has enough power for two, lots and lots of room for rider and passenger, and has so far an insanely good reliability track record. But it is a different style of bike. Do I personally care? No, I like a lot of different bikes, I might buy a Super Tenere in a year or two, who knows? It's a bit heavy for me, but I can manage.

I'd also buy the bike I have described above, but unfortunately, it doesn't exist. The bikes that get closest to my liking are the "Trailies", I just add what I want and make them work for me. Then I sell them and get the next one.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:09 PM   #47
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I think to some degree this bike segment is covered or falls so close to another segment most people prefer one style or type to another and the middle is left out. For example those who like the Harley Baggers VS Road King VS Victory Vision. Personally I prefer the sport touring (I know you do too) like the FJR1300, ZX1400 concours and the BMW k1600gt all three with good suspension relatively low maintenance and lighter than the ultra touring goldwing. I don't know just my $0.02

I agree on the sport touring part. Although I do find goldwings impressive, they are far too much for me to ride. I also dont need all the electronic stuff that comes with higher end bikes on the market. All I need to tour is a map and a motorbike with hard luggage.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
Actually, when I bought my FJR last March, it came down to either it or the NT700V. I went for the FJR primarily because my research on the NT700 indicated it was pretty maintenance intensive. I am at work right now and cannot access youtube, but there are several maintenance videos by "soundtechguy" on the NT. It took two hours to remove the rear wheel, not just because of all the bodywork, but the exhaust also had to be removed! I like the NT but that indicates poor design to me - so I went with the FJR.

I liked the FJR. Great bike, a real blast to ride - but my wife hated it. She rode it once for 36 miles. Squirmed the whole time. When we got home, she pronounced it "the most uncomfortable bike you have ever had".

The FJR is gone, and now there is a 2008 Kawasaki Vulcan Nomad in my garage. The wife is comfortable on it. It's low maintenance, looks great, sounds great. It's a real pleasure to ride down the highway. But it is a big fat pig (772 dry) and difficult to handle at low speeds. The weight is only a small part of the problem. The real problem is the ergos. Feet out in front. High and wide handlebar. Great for cruising down the road, but difficult to ride at low speeds. I now understand why so many cruiser riders have mastered the duck walk.

So I got to thinking there should be something comfy for two with more "standard ergonomics". A Goldwing would be perfect, but it's just way bigger than anything I want, and I don't care for all the plastic and extra things... I just want a smiple, basic bike. Like I said, a friend of mine has a beautifulled restored GL1100. He parked it next to my Nomad the other night, and that's what got all this started.

A BMW R12RT would be a good fit, but I don't want to pay the BMW price tag, and only have one dealer (who is difficult to deal with) in the area. Besides it seems to me that Honda is doing the best on quality these days, and BMW basically has their head up their corporate @$$. Just my humble opinion.

Maybe the new Triumph Trophy will fill the bill.

Anyway I did not intend for this thread to become a debate on the merits of GL1100's, or nostalgia vs modernism - I intended it to be a thread about what bikes we would like to see that are not currently available NEW... Maybe we could give the manufacturers an idea or two
You see this a lot of the various forums. If YamKawHonZukiKtmH-D built this, I'd buy it. So they build it, and then all of the sudden, everyone that swore they would buy one, has a new excuse, it's the wrong color (?), the footpegs are too low, the grips aren't any good, I don't like the way the exhaust looks, etc., etc. It's just a case of the grass is always greener. You say you want this or that, and then you don't buy what they build.

I see a lot of guys riding their old stuff, say that mid-80s Gold Wing, and swear they would buy a new bike if they only made the one they want. To me, that almost indicates that these riders, have never ridden a new one, some built in bias, I would suppose. I've ridden most of the new bikes, and there is no comparison to the old ones, everything is better with the new technology. Remember when everything had points? When electronic ignitions came out, I knew plenty of people that resisted that bit of tech back then, you can't fix it on the side of the road, when it dies, it just stops. But now, it almost never has any issues, and even thinking back to the 70s when it first came out, I don't remember having any issues at all with electronic ignition. Same thing now with Fuel Injection. My Duc is an '01, one of the earlier injection models, but it fuels perfectly, on the dyno and on the street, and never, ever misses a beat. My KTM has carburetors, I wish it was injected, I'm having carburetor issues as we speak.

Everything is better now.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #49
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I put a lot of miles on the GL1000 during the few years I owned it but it was a love/hate relationship. Ergonomics weren't great, had to raise the seat and move it back so my legs wouldn't cramp up. Engine was in the way when trying to stretch my legs on a long ride. Weight was excessive for around town and ground clearance insufficient when trying to get off the pavement to good camping spots. It was a pig on curvy roads. On the plus side it was smooth running, reliable, and had good power.

I now have a GL500 Interstate which is a pretty good fit for me. Not too heavy at 507 lbs. Reliable, low maintenance, 50 MPG, 4.6 gal tank for a 200 mile range, liquid cooled, shaft drive, luggage locks and is easily removable. Cushy ride but still handles well in the curves. 50 hp is enough for me since I don't spend much time on the super slab.

Would like to see Honda make an updated lighter weight version of the GL650. Stick with simplicity as much as possible and don't cover everything with plastic. 2 cylinders is enough and carbs are preferred.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:51 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
I intended it to be a thread about what bikes we would like to see that are not currently available NEW... Maybe we could give the manufacturers an idea or two
The biggest WTF has to be the VFR800.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:59 PM   #51
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The biggest WTF has to be the VFR800.
'splain?
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:06 PM   #52
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By WTF, I hope that you mean "why did they drop it in favor of the VFR1200?" Take the Gen 5 VFR (the "R" means gear-driven cams; the Gen 6 was really only a "VF800") and drag it back toward an RC-45 based ST:

Add the RC-51 front end;
Ohlins rear shock;
loose 40 lbs;
make the rear subframe more user / aftermarket friendly;
and tune the gearing & FI for more mpg in taller gears...

and you have a great SPORT tourer.

As it was, the Gen 6 was too close to being a small Blackbird, which was a great SST, but ultimately lost to the ZX14 class in the Super sport-tourer category.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by mrbreeze View Post
Anyway I did not intend for this thread to become a debate on the merits of GL1100's, or nostalgia vs modernism - I intended it to be a thread about what bikes we would like to see that are not currently available NEW... Maybe we could give the manufacturers an idea or two
I agree, the thread, like many, drifted off the question asked. Maybe my comment will drift toward that "nostalgia vs. modernism" again. but I would offer that just because something can be done for the sake of improvement, sophistication or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean it really makes anything better when it comes down to what we really need or want it to do. To me, many times, when it comes to motorcycles, some of the "improvements" just makes things complicated and/or more difficult to work on and troubleshoot. I like working on my own stuff. Simple is easier to work on. I'd bet a lot of dealership mechanics wish things were easier to work on and troubleshoot too.

Although I'm not typically a new bike buyer the new Honda NC700X (or whatever it's called) seems to make a move toward a basic, functional motorcycle (not the dual clutch transmission option model though)

Lynn
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:59 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by DannyZRC View Post
'splain?
This

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
By WTF, I hope that you mean "why did they drop it in favor of the VFR1200?" Take the Gen 5 VFR (the "R" means gear-driven cams; the Gen 6 was really only a "VF800") and drag it back toward an RC-45 based ST:
I still occasionally think of buying a 5th Gen, but they are ten years old now. I'd like a new one.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:00 PM   #55
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If I could get a 5th gen with ABS, that would appeal to me.

6th gen with ABS.. less so.

R1200ST seems to be as close as it gets.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:18 PM   #56
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R1200ST seems to be as close as it gets.
The F800ST is probably closer but the luggage blows, the early ones had fuelling issues and that motor bores me to tears.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:21 PM   #57
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The F800ST is probably closer but the luggage blows, the early ones had fuelling issues and that motor bores me to tears.
R1200ST is right around 505 wet without luggage, very close to ye olde 5th gen. Similar power, though obviously different engine character. I'm a funny front end enthusiast, so there's that. Others... notsomuch.

F800ST is a much lighter and lower powered proposition, not a bad bike by any stretch but no heir to the VFR. Nothing is, I suppose.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:39 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
As it was, the Gen 6 was too close to being a small Blackbird, which was a great SST, but ultimately lost to the ZX14 class in the Super sport-tourer category.
I think the 6th gen was a good rational sport touring bike. It wasn't some twitchy 200mph beast. It's good at what it's engineered to do. It zips through traffic. It does the slab. It's full of interesting technology for the tech nerds. You can load it and go across the continent on blacktop/concrete.

Maybe I'm getting old, but I really tire of riding bikes like the 14 and 'busa on public roads and constantly having to reign it in. The VF800 is a great recipe for a rational road bike. It's a solid answer to the commuter/stouring/ocassional track day bike question.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:22 PM   #59
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R1200ST is right around 505 wet without luggage, very close to ye olde 5th gen. Similar power, though obviously different engine character. I'm a funny front end enthusiast, so there's that. Others... notsomuch.

F800ST is a much lighter and lower powered proposition, not a bad bike by any stretch but no heir to the VFR. Nothing is, I suppose.

According to the spec sheets of various publications, that bike weighs in at about 575 on the road. That's quite a bit more than 505.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:31 PM   #60
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According to the spec sheets of various publications, that bike weighs in at about 575 on the road. That's quite a bit more than 505.
According to the specs I found online (German), it's 205kg dry (452lbs). I highly doubt that you have to add 123lbs to make it road ready.

So, where are your specs from?
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