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Old 02-11-2015, 08:23 AM   #1
Chinookmark OP
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Car tires on motorcycle wheels

I ran across this thread today sort of by accident:

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/.../topics/400426

It's long and technical, but very interesting if you're into that sort of stuff. The guy apparently did his homework. Granted, the article was geared towards two wheel motorcycles, so we'll have to read between the lines a little.

The part that surprised me was the size and shape of the beads. I believe I will install a dedicated car wheel before I ever try to cheat a car tire on a bike rim.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:06 AM   #2
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More information than you ever wanted to know on "dark siding".

http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:23 AM   #3
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I've read a lot about that and I'm not opposed to trying it.

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Old 02-11-2015, 11:57 AM   #4
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All that's been said before, my auto tires are on auto rims, though I might not be against trying a 17" auto tire on a 17" motorcycle rim in the pusher position.
Two wheel darksiding on big powerful bikes seems like a bad idea.DB
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Old 02-11-2015, 12:40 PM   #5
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I'm not advocating for or against darksiding on a two wheeler, but I very much like the idea for a three wheeler. The part that caught my attention (and scares me) is how different the beads are between motorcycle rims and car tires. I was unaware of the differences, and just assumed 15"=15" and 17"=17".

All I'm saying is that I'm going to forget brainstorming an R1200C back wheel onto my GS and give Stroker a call.
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Old 02-11-2015, 12:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinookmark View Post
I'm not advocating for or against darksiding on a two wheeler, but I very much like the idea for a three wheeler. The part that caught my attention (and scares me) is how different the beads are between motorcycle rims and car tires. I was unaware of the differences, and just assumed 15"=15" and 17"=17".

All I'm saying is that I'm going to forget brainstorming an R1200C back wheel onto my GS and give Stroker a call.
I guess one could find someone to machine the beads on a MC rim if you want to work at it. Is this Dave from NJ R1150gs/Ural rig ? If you get a wheel from Stroker you can choose between the taller 165/80/15 or shorter 175/65/15 it make quite a difference in gearing and GS's with stock gearing need all the help they can get.DB

2 different 175/65 and a 165/80 on the rt.DB
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:00 PM   #7
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Worked fine for me ,almost 20,000 miles with CT on a MC rim.

I did run it without the sidecar and it still did great.


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Old 02-11-2015, 04:14 PM   #8
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did you notice any difference when cornering solo?
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebig View Post
I guess one could find someone to machine the beads on a MC rim if you want to work at it. Is this Dave from NJ R1150gs/Ural rig ? If you get a wheel from Stroker you can choose between the taller 165/80/15 or shorter 175/65/15 it make quite a difference in gearing and GS's with stock gearing need all the help they can get.DB
DB
Yeah, I picked it up from Dave (from NJ) in October. I had to do the responsible thing and get a family vehicle. I have a solution to the gearing in a box from Germany sitting in the sidecar now--just waiting on some free time. I've already talked to David (Stroker) about the wheel. I was just contemplating a more budget friendly alternative. There sure are a lot of Dave's around here!

I'm sure there are thousands of people running darkside with no issues, and there are thousands more with no DS experience that will say what a horrible idea it is. I was just relaying the post I found because it looked so thoroughly researched, rather than just the usual anecdotal collection.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Alexander View Post
did you notice any difference when cornering solo?

Turn in was way quicker,but it only took a few turns to get use to it.I would go dark side on my current bike but there is not much room between the stock 160/17 and the swingarm.


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Old 02-11-2015, 05:43 PM   #11
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I would figure the contact patch is reduced as the tire is more on edge ... depending on tire pressures so there might be issues at speed. Did you try to push a bit while leaned over and see how if felt?
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:39 PM   #12
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I have not yet read the Goldwing thread but plan to do so. I'll make some observations now, though, even without reading the Goldwing thread.

First, many conversations about the safety or effectiveness of car tires on moto rims presuppose that the moto rim will be used with the car tire on a leaning motorcycle. Car tires on moto rims used on trikes and sidecars is a whole 'nother thing--we don't lean!

Second, car tire beads are flexible. You can bend them in your hands, you can push your thumbnail into them, they flex, they are not carved out of stone. Diagrams that show differences in the shapes of moto rims and car tire beads don't mention that the bead on a car tire once inflated to an appropriate pressure will conform to the rim it's mounted on to some degree. A car tire will always seat better on a car rim than on a moto rim, but they will seat on a moto rim.

Third, load ratings. A typical rear tire for a big GS, for instance, will have a load rating of around 700 pounds. And that's based on its use on a LEANING bike. Sidecars and trikes place totally different stresses on tires than leaning bikes. (When cornering, anyway.) Can we trust those load ratings when we're flinging our heavily loaded outfits into a bunch of twisties and we're not leaning? I think not. An equivalent car tire, let's say the Achilles Economist ATR-K in size 175/55-17, has a load rating of 1235 lbs (75% more than the moto tire) and that rating is based on the tire being used on a vehicle that doesn't lean, namely a car, which for the purposes of this discussion is more like a trike or sidecar than a motorcycle. The question then becomes, do I prefer a dubious 700-lb rating on a tire with a perfect rim-to-bead fit, or a trustworthy 1235-lb rating on a tire with a dubious rim-to-bead fit (and which is designed to be used on non-leaning vehicles)? I think you know my answer.

So, I'm gonna read all 43 pages of that Goldwing thread. But I'm gonna approach it with a certain amount of distrust in moto tires on sidecars. I think moto tires are fine for toot-tooting around town going to Starbucks and whatnot. And for interstate cruising where I hardly ever have to put any effort into the steering. But when you're pushing it hard and holding on for dear life down a twisty river road, I think my moto tire is NOT being used as intended and is a real weakness in the security of my rig.

[Note: it only happened to me once. I had a 110/80-19 front moto tire come off my front moto rim whilst I was in the twisties. So, yes, it does happen. This is not just conjecture on my part.]
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:01 PM   #13
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Can you elaborate on the 19 tire coming out off the rim? This must be the scariest thing in the world??


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Old 02-12-2015, 06:22 AM   #14
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Tire & Rim Cabal Needs to Get it Together...

First off, they need to make their manual public again... Or maybe they're too embarrassed to show that they still haven't converted to the metric system! There standards are old, and I suspect a lot of tires aren't built to them exactly, anyways. Thousands of car tires have been mounted on motorcycle rims, and the only problems have been with the 15" rims, where the car rims and tires are considerably smaller. And as Drone has pointed out, using motorcycle tires in an application they're not designed for- Sidecars and trikes- has it's own risks.

The real problem here is that the T&RA and it's member manufacturers has it's heads in the sand, and expects motorcyclists to forever enrich them by buying overpriced motorcycle tires that are bald in less than 10,000 miles, justified by speed ratings we'll never use anyway.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:38 AM   #15
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Nice broadsides DRONE and GearHeadGrrrl ! If I where starting over I'd try a 175/55/17 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Achilles...87a13e&vxp=mtr
That being said it's not going to ride as nice as the 15" wheel and availability will be an issue for awhile till decent stocks of that size get to the US.
There is a fair variety of 15".
Sidecars what an imperfect annoying way to travel ! Dan got ahead and get one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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