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Old 01-29-2013, 02:50 AM   #121
paulvandenbogaard
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have been looking at Sanjohs offerings till now. Was betting on the M60s. Now I am not so sure ...

My KTM SMT990 will be equipped with a single Mori Moto D2S 35W HID that will replace the standard halogen light.
The standard light is just "crap". Some folks report that it can also do 50W HID, however my local reseller advises against this.
I travel on paved roads for 99+% of the time, although the pavement is not always of good quality. Expect the Xenon D2S to take care of the area up till 25 to 30 or so meters.
I am looking for more information of what is ahead. On the road itself but also on the side of the roads.
Traveling at 120 km/hour (approx 80 miles/hour) means I do 33.33 meters a second. I want to see at least 2 seconds ahead, which means the area 65 meters away needs to be clearly visible. Also taken into account the "light blinding" due to a closer area being lit by the same light source.

A single spot that would give me the info but the beam is very focussed. I fear this will make a tunnel where the boundaries between unlit and lit are too strong for comfortable riding. The first picture (dual long range 40W) seems to be a good candidate. Not sure about the title, I have the feeling this should be "two dual long range 40W" understanding a single spot takes 10W. Also comparing it to the "Single long range dual 20W" picture which really does show that "tunnel" thing.

I also believe the first two pictures where taken with a telelens compared to the others: the trees/bushes are much closer in there.

The M60 shown seems to kind of overlight the nearby area. However this can also be due to the camera settings. Would it be possible to tell the camera settings (F stop, speed and ISO) This would enable me to try a couple of pictures myself with the D2S to compare this to the ones presented here. I can post that picture overhere ones I have it.

The probable best solution could be D2S for nearbu, Sonjoh's M60 for the next part (still wide) and a dual LR for further away. However I am having a hard time to see how this all can be attached to the bike. With symmetry in mind, I would prefer two single spot LR instead of one double spot LR. Is the only difference between these two approaches that with two singles there is more flexibility for positioning the beams?
With that same thought, two dual spot LRs might both look very acceptable and give a good reasonable wide beam.

Finally I plan to hook al this up with a dimmer and separate on/off switch. . In the Netherlands these lights are far from legal I fear. Have to reduce the amount strongly when driving in areas where more folks are using the road.

Hope you folks can share your ideas on this all.

Thanks
Paul
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:06 AM   #122
Off Road Ryder OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfdskipper View Post
Impressive pics! Were the pics of the optimus lights taken with a pair of lights, or an individual light?? Also, was the squadron light shown in the pics a 10 degree spot ?

I have them listed above the photos. The BD is the driving light
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:30 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulvandenbogaard View Post
have been looking at Sanjohs offerings till now. Was betting on the M60s. Now I am not so sure ...

My KTM SMT990 will be equipped with a single Mori Moto D2S 35W HID that will replace the standard halogen light.
The standard light is just "crap". Some folks report that it can also do 50W HID, however my local reseller advises against this.
I travel on paved roads for 99+% of the time, although the pavement is not always of good quality. Expect the Xenon D2S to take care of the area up till 25 to 30 or so meters.
I am looking for more information of what is ahead. On the road itself but also on the side of the roads.
Traveling at 120 km/hour (approx 80 miles/hour) means I do 33.33 meters a second. I want to see at least 2 seconds ahead, which means the area 65 meters away needs to be clearly visible. Also taken into account the "light blinding" due to a closer area being lit by the same light source.

A single spot that would give me the info but the beam is very focussed. I fear this will make a tunnel where the boundaries between unlit and lit are too strong for comfortable riding. The first picture (dual long range 40W) seems to be a good candidate. Not sure about the title, I have the feeling this should be "two dual long range 40W" understanding a single spot takes 10W. Also comparing it to the "Single long range dual 20W" picture which really does show that "tunnel" thing.

I also believe the first two pictures where taken with a telelens compared to the others: the trees/bushes are much closer in there.

The M60 shown seems to kind of overlight the nearby area. However this can also be due to the camera settings. Would it be possible to tell the camera settings (F stop, speed and ISO) This would enable me to try a couple of pictures myself with the D2S to compare this to the ones presented here. I can post that picture overhere ones I have it.

The probable best solution could be D2S for nearbu, Sonjoh's M60 for the next part (still wide) and a dual LR for further away. However I am having a hard time to see how this all can be attached to the bike. With symmetry in mind, I would prefer two single spot LR instead of one double spot LR. Is the only difference between these two approaches that with two singles there is more flexibility for positioning the beams?
With that same thought, two dual spot LRs might both look very acceptable and give a good reasonable wide beam.

Finally I plan to hook al this up with a dimmer and separate on/off switch. . In the Netherlands these lights are far from legal I fear. Have to reduce the amount strongly when driving in areas where more folks are using the road.

Hope you folks can share your ideas on this all.

Thanks
Paul
ALL photos where taken at the same time with the same camera at the same settings. No BS here.
I'm no pro photographer by any mean. the only camera setting was to slow the shutter speed to 3 on ALL photos.
This is a risk for a vendor putting up photos, No doubt that someone will claim that things are not equal.. They defiantly are I'm a bit taken back by the accusation.
Perhaps more light makes the trees look closer.
What you can not see here is that the Long Range will go quite a bit farther than the size of the field.and easily beat out all the other lights in distance.

Ill take another look and attempt to rename the photos for clarity.

Your HID will not compare to any of these lights, well maybe one.


You can aim single lights to get the fill and distance you desire.These are all 10 deg Long Range, You could always go with a 10 and 20 as well
again here are two single 10 deg Long Range lights offering a fill and distance. Same Camera settings as above.

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Cyclops Performance LED Vendors thread
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839163
www.cyclopsadventuresports.com
1-800-624-0278

Off Road Ryder screwed with this post 02-11-2013 at 04:02 PM
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:07 AM   #124
sanjoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
ADV Monster Model 60 40 watt draw
I do not normally post in other vendors thread, however you do not have your facts straight about the model 60. It does not use 40watts, this is a common mistake, especially by marketing folks. I am an engineer, the light uses 28watts@12v, measured with a calibrated amp meter. Not the 40 watts you stated.

The light picture of the model 60 looks ridiculous, looks like the light is pointed at the ground, very obvious as you see the top of the main beam is over exposed on the lower part of the picture.

I invite any comparison but seriously it needs to be done by a third party that is not biased, any volunteers?
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:45 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
I do not normally post in other vendors thread, however you do not have your facts straight about the model 60. It does not use 40watts, this is a common mistake, especially by marketing folks. I am an engineer, the light uses 28watts@12v, measured with a calibrated amp meter. Not the 40 watts you stated.

The light picture of the model 60 looks ridiculous, looks like the light is pointed at the ground, very obvious as you see the top of the main beam is over exposed on the lower part of the picture.

I invite any comparison but seriously it needs to be done by a third party that is not biased, any volunteers?

Fair enough Sanjoh. Actually I see you comment on others threads quite often,bashing good companies. I have held my tongue about your cheap lights for some time.
.I thought I did our best to represent all lights as they are. Note the BD photo??

.If only the ADV rider community knew what you paid for the junk Chinese made lights. I do.
Lets get others to do some photos. Nothing to hide here. The Chinese made model 60 is not very comparable in quality or distance. It does put out a good amount of light close to the bike. But made very cheaply.Certainly an good engineer would recognize the difference in quality,
And for the engineer side if things.. you cant advertise 3600 lumen's and then turn around and say you only have a 28 watt draw. which is it?? it cant be both.
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When Quality matters,Its all about choices.
Cyclops Performance LED Vendors thread
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839163
www.cyclopsadventuresports.com
1-800-624-0278

Off Road Ryder screwed with this post 02-07-2013 at 11:46 AM
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:00 AM   #126
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:21 AM   #127
sanjoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
Fair enough Sanjoh. Actually I see you coment on others threads quite often I have held my tongue about your cheap lights for some time.
When I aimed the light up some it nearly disappeared and would not set off the camera.I thought I did our best to represent all lights as they are. Note the BD photo??

.If only the ADV rider community knew what you paid for the Chinese made lights. I do.
Lets get others to do some photos. Nothing to hide here. The Chinese made model 60 is not very comparable in quality or distance. It does put out a good amount of light close to the bike. But made very cheaply.certainly an engineer would recognize the difference in quality.
You should pay attention, I do not post in other vendor threads unless in this case the facts have been grossly misrepresented.

Having been in manufacturing most of my 25yr career. I do recognize quality which why I offer these lights for reasonable prices compared to some other companies who choose take advantage of the customer with hype, lack of technical information, and other misleading information as you have presented here.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:47 AM   #128
paulvandenbogaard
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Oh dear, I fear something I said made you feel "attacked". I can assure you that was absolutely NOT my intent!! My first reaction when reading your previous posting (the one showing the pictures of different led solutions) was "Wow super some lights actually compared"
If you can tell me what it was that triggered the feeling of attack I might be able to improve my knowledge of the English language. Could also be a cultural thing. Dutch folks have a tendency to be seen as "blunt", although in general there is absolutely no intent to mean harm.

My hope was to get the data (ISO, F-stop, shutterspeed) to also compare this to something I can see with my eyes. Just to compare for the real impression. To complete the mental picture I am trying to build in my head of too many different (led) lighting solutions available.
Most likely the HID will not come close to most of these LED solutions at all. I just hoped to get a better impression on the "to what extent".

However I now understand due to the camera used this is not really possible. A pitty, but hee so be it. I still do like your led solution. And I love the info you present too.
I mentioned my impression of a telelens. Could it be that your camera kind of adjusts its focal lens automatically? I looked closely again but, for example if I compare the first picture called NS-dualdbl01... to the one called NS-Singledual.... (number 1 and 3 in the earlier picture list) I do get this impression.

The picture you just showed is very promissing. However can you tell what the distance was between the light and the area on the picture closest to you? Or is the full area lit already shown? I just try to get a mental picture here.
And to complete this mental picture: two single spot lights were used. How far apart were they? Like on each side of the front wheel; one on the left and the other on the right crash bar; or one on the left and the other on the right end of the handle bar?

Some more questions. With respect to the LR light which has two spots in a single housing, can this one be attached vertically with the attachment point on top?
Can one single spot led lamp be attached to another: just a wild idea but with two singles alligned vertically I can have one pointed in front, while the other just shifted a tiny bit to the outside spreading the overall "beam" I fear I have to allign vertically in order to get them attached to my bike which kind of mandates attaching them together vertically.

Hope I did not trigger any negative feelings with this posting. Once more your solutions look more then great, I just want to have a good understanding. In the end $500 is a respectable sum if I would go for two doubles + dimmer.

Thanks
Paul
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:05 AM   #129
WindSailor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
The light picture of the model 60 looks ridiculous, looks like the light is pointed at the ground, very obvious as you see the top of the main beam is over exposed on the lower part of the picture.
Yep.

As a consumer of these products blatant misrepresentation is a VERY BIG heads up on a company. Most people are internet savvy and really do their research on items such as this.

Here's a vendor comparison of photo's for the advmonster 60:
Yours

Sanjo's

Notice any difference on the beam pattern?

Maybe a sparsely tree lined road would be a better example for a photo so everyone could see the aiming point and the down range light availability. Then do a comparison.

Now the real comparison of your Dually should have been on this one:

M62 on advmonster:


Now - both of you better put up - or shut up.

Don't waste 'our' time on this forum.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:13 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
You should pay attention, I do not post in other vendor threads unless in this case the facts have been grossly misrepresented.

Having been in manufacturing most of my 25yr career. I do recognize quality which why I offer these lights for reasonable prices compared to some other companies who choose take advantage of the customer with hype, lack of technical information, and other misleading information as you have presented here.
You advertise a 3600 lumen light yet claim it only draws 28 watts. It can't be both, so who's giving out false and misleading info? Check yourself as you appear to be the pot calling the kettle black.
All the technical aspects of the long range are laid out in this thread, maybe you should try being honest with your customers and do the same in your own thread.How many customers have you cut off after haveing them return bad lights 4 or 5 times? Ive spoken to at least 3. We would never treat a customer like that. For starters our products will not fail.

I'm not misrepresenting anything in any thread. Fact is there is no need to go down this ugly road. you have chosen to do that. If there was an issue with something I posted, I'm more than reasonable and would have fixed it, Instead you have chosen to take a low road and act much like the crap you are selling.

If a light or mount fails is it really less expensive to the consumer? If the wires break because they are thin and cheap is that saving the customer $ ? If a light fails when you need it most, did the customer save anything? The answer is NO now they just pay more to fix a turd or buy what they should have in the first place. Quality always wins over cost.
I will look again at photos and see if we can do a better comp.with distance markers But all was equal in every way.
I wish you luck, but don't crap in my thread. and I wont do the same in yours.
__________________
When Quality matters,Its all about choices.
Cyclops Performance LED Vendors thread
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839163
www.cyclopsadventuresports.com
1-800-624-0278

Off Road Ryder screwed with this post 02-07-2013 at 11:50 AM Reason: dealing with Sanjohs Bullshit
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:23 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindSailor View Post
Yep.

As a consumer of these products blatant misrepresentation is a VERY BIG heads up on a company. Most people are internet savvy and really do their research on items such as this.

Here's a vendor comparison of photo's for the advmonster 60:
Yours

Sanjo's

Notice any difference on the beam pattern?

Maybe a sparsely tree lined road would be a better example for a photo so everyone could see the aiming point and the down range light availability. Then do a comparison.

Now the real comparison of your Dually should have been on this one:

M62 on advmonster:


Now - both of you better put up - or shut up.

Don't waste 'our' time on this forum.

I dont get how you can take a photo from a different view point and compare it to another.
The last thing I want to do is waste your time.
I stand by what photos we have taken and say there is no prejudice in any direction. In this thread you can see the BD photo does it look faked or manipulated also??
If I was to discriminate against a particular light, don't you think it would be the next best preforming light in the lineup?
That sure isn't the Chinese made Model 60


I'm willing to listen to what you the consumer feels they want in the way of photos and try to oblige
there is no BS here, other than whats coming out of other posters.
Ill look for another photo of the model 60 that might have been taken that night.

Ive been putting up for 10 years. some of the top racers in the world use our lights. Companies like Tesla and others use our products in OEM applications.
We would not have that if we sold Chinese crap and misrepresented our products.
__________________
When Quality matters,Its all about choices.
Cyclops Performance LED Vendors thread
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839163
www.cyclopsadventuresports.com
1-800-624-0278

Off Road Ryder screwed with this post 01-29-2013 at 11:44 AM
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:57 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
You should pay attention, I do not post in other vendor threads unless in this case the facts have been grossly misrepresented.

Having been in manufacturing most of my 25yr career. I do recognize quality which why I offer these lights for reasonable prices compared to some other companies who choose take advantage of the customer with hype, lack of technical information, and other misleading information as you have presented here.
Nothing here is grossly misrepresented other than the distance of the Long Range LEDs .Its much farther than the photos show. Time will tell what is what.
I did find a better photo of the model 60. I hope you can agree that it is legit.
photos are one thing, build quality and lasting products are something else.
__________________
When Quality matters,Its all about choices.
Cyclops Performance LED Vendors thread
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839163
www.cyclopsadventuresports.com
1-800-624-0278

Off Road Ryder screwed with this post 01-29-2013 at 12:29 PM
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:08 PM   #133
WindSailor
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True.

I might be up for an 'outsider' comparison if both of you are up to it.

I'll try and get at least three people involved for the comparison. PM me if your interested...
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:28 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulvandenbogaard View Post
Oh dear, I fear something I said made you feel "attacked". I can assure you that was absolutely NOT my intent!! My first reaction when reading your previous posting (the one showing the pictures of different led solutions) was "Wow super some lights actually compared"
If you can tell me what it was that triggered the feeling of attack I might be able to improve my knowledge of the English language. Could also be a cultural thing. Dutch folks have a tendency to be seen as "blunt", although in general there is absolutely no intent to mean harm.

My hope was to get the data (ISO, F-stop, shutterspeed) to also compare this to something I can see with my eyes. Just to compare for the real impression. To complete the mental picture I am trying to build in my head of too many different (led) lighting solutions available.
Most likely the HID will not come close to most of these LED solutions at all. I just hoped to get a better impression on the "to what extent".

However I now understand due to the camera used this is not really possible. A pitty, but hee so be it. I still do like your led solution. And I love the info you present too.
I mentioned my impression of a telelens. Could it be that your camera kind of adjusts its focal lens automatically? I looked closely again but, for example if I compare the first picture called NS-dualdbl01... to the one called NS-Singledual.... (number 1 and 3 in the earlier picture list) I do get this impression.

The picture you just showed is very promising. However can you tell what the distance was between the light and the area on the picture closest to you? Or is the full area lit already shown? I just try to get a mental picture here.
And to complete this mental picture: two single spot lights were used. How far apart were they? Like on each side of the front wheel; one on the left and the other on the right crash bar; or one on the left and the other on the right end of the handle bar?

Some more questions. With respect to the LR light which has two spots in a single housing, can this one be attached vertically with the attachment point on top?
Can one single spot led lamp be attached to another: just a wild idea but with two singles aligned vertically I can have one pointed in front, while the other just shifted a tiny bit to the outside spreading the overall "beam" I fear I have to align vertically in order to get them attached to my bike which kind of mandates attaching them together vertically.

Hope I did not trigger any negative feelings with this posting. Once more your solutions look more then great, I just want to have a good understanding. In the end $500 is a respectable sum if I would go for two doubles + dimmer.

Thanks
Paul
No Worries Paul
We can try our hardest and still piss some people off. It kind of goes with the territory I guess.
I placed another photo of the Model 60 into the comparison shots. Take a look at the clump of grass that is evident in all photos. All lights where mounted on a board that we had to rotate 180 to get the different lights in the shots. The aim was slightly different in a few photos.
What isn't told in the photos is the build quality of the individual lights. Some are much better than others.

I have a Nikon d60 to get all these shots we took the setting off auto and only changed the shutter speed to 3 all setting are the same in all shots.

The photos are taken approx 350 ft from the tree line.

I would say the distance where you start seeing the bottom edges of the light beams is probably 50 ft.
I went back and renamed some photos. If it was a photo of dual lights they where at max 2 ft apart, a bit closer than what they would normally be on a bike.

The attachment point of the light is on the top or bottom, if mounted vertically that would be on the side
The lights do not attach together like our NXG pods do.
I hope I answered all your questions. I just want to give the ADV rider community a real comparison and understanding of what they may be purchasing. That will ocasianally backfire with supporters of other products who feel we are underchanging someone. I'll do my best to make sure that is not the case.
If we make a mistake we will own it not hide behind a wall of BS.
I'm disappointed in the direction this thread has turned and will do better to make it clearer for all.
I can guaranty you the best service, products and after sales support. We are not still around after more than 10 years by offering junk and calling it the best thing since sliced bread.
__________________
When Quality matters,Its all about choices.
Cyclops Performance LED Vendors thread
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839163
www.cyclopsadventuresports.com
1-800-624-0278
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:00 PM   #135
pfdskipper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops Motorsports View Post
I have them listed above the photos. The BD is the driving light
Thanks for the reply. I surely do not want to add to the tension that has taken place here in the last couple of pages of posts. I am hoping to get just a bit more reach out of my newest configuration mounted to my 950 Super Enduro. I am currently running a pair of Sanjohs model 60's, a Baja designs squadron in the spot (10degree) version, as well as the Baja Designs onx, also set up in the 10 degree spot. I am quite pleased with all of the lights except that I find a need for a bit more reach on the beams when I am traveling at Super Enduro warp speeds.

I was hoping to see a comparison between the dual optimus and a 10 degree squadron, I believe this comparison will give me a better feel for the actual differance of beam throw.

I have the in-close area covered nicely with the Sanjoe model 60's, which I use as my low beam light. I keep them at 40% of capacity with another vendors dimmer. All the lights come on to 100% with my high beam switch. AS stated, I need just a bit more length of light throw to find my happy spot. I hope to make my next light addition the perfect "icing on the cake.

Soooo,
Is there any chance you could do a comparison with the lights all being in the 10 degree versions, with the same number of lights for each brand used in the comparisons?
My current set-up


Thanks again
Here is a link to a thread on my set-up.. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=857680
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