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Old 11-17-2012, 05:28 PM   #76
gec343
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I would love to have a Burgman 650 Executive, or maybe a BMW, and will in the distant future. As far as harassment from my buddies, I would tell them, you coudn't handle a scooter! I would enjoy the farce!
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:54 PM   #77
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I've owned several scooters, a KLR, and quite a few other bikes. There are seven in the stable just now. Running a KLR on pavement for daily commuting in the city/suburbs makes little sense. If you have rough pavement, gravel, and moderately rough trails, the KLR shines. It is not a trails bike. It is not a road bike. It's a rough-road all-rounder.

A good scoot is a joy carving up suburban pavement. The work load is low, and they just eat up traffic. They are truly fun to ride, and the storage and slop protection speak for themselves.

However, on anything but good pavement, the roles reverse. Here, I was getting beaten up by my scooter (Aprilia Scarabeo 500ie). Our roads are crap. I actually find the KLR a very comfortable commuting machine for this area. In other parts of the country, with different road conditions, it wouldn't be true. If you don't need off-road capability, why have it?
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #78
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The KLR is actually the perfect road bike for around here, we have the worst roads on earth. Big bumps and potholes everywhere. To bad it is such an uncomfortable bike. Most of that is the seat. My last KLR was an '01 model, maybe the seat on the '08 and up has improved. I haven't tried it. But this is not the best place for a large scooter with small wheels. It's hard to see just where those wheels are going, and you will KNOW it when you hit a pothole/bomb crater. With my small scooters I can weave my way around between most of the worst stuff. The interstates are still in pretty decent shape, they still get federal money to keep those maintained.

I actually wonder why maxi scooters even exist. If the main attraction is the automatic transmission, why not build a motorcycle with an automatic transmission? I know it has been tried and it failed, but times are different. Seems to me a nice comfortable automatic motorcycle with shaft drive, full size wheels, and storage capacity would be better than a maxi scooter. Such a motorcycle would of course have to be priced no higher than the scooters. Honda's DN-01 for example was an expensive joke.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:41 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markcap View Post
How can a scoot compete with a KLR in regards to an ability to carry gear? I've never seen side bags on any Burgman? I agree with the poster, you can spend $1000 to outfit a KLR but once it ready, it can carry much more gear can't it?

I owned a KLR. I currently have a DL650. I to want a Burgman but outfitting it to compete with my Vee would be my biggest issue. Maybe I carry too much on long trips but I refuse to use motels. I prefer camping on my adventure rides.
I've seen side cases on a Burg before but only one and it was on the net not in person. Its the underseat storage that makes it so appealing. You ever looked in one? Fold the person in half and you could stuff a dead body in there.
The 10 day trip I did this summer, I had 2 dry bags strapped to the rear rack and that was to much stuff. Yes you could replicate that storage on the KLR but it would take 2 large side cases and probably still a top box. In a quick google search says 400 burgs have 62 liters. But it's better shaped than most side cases. Side cases are tall and skinny. Under the seat I can put 2 full faces and have room so stuff more junk around it. But I don't need the helmet storage....I could have put all my stuff for that trip under the seat. Stops, I wouldn't have felt like I had to sit by the window all the time blah blah blah. Not to mention in just everyday use, groceries, hardware store etc. Not to mention all the cubbies up front for stuff. A few poeple have mentioned a Burg won't offroad or even gravel road but that's not what I'm looking for. I don't offroad my KLR. I suppose I'm strictly comparing the touring and daily riding capabilites of each machine on road.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:22 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
The KLR is actually the perfect road bike for around here, we have the worst roads on earth. Big bumps and potholes everywhere. To bad it is such an uncomfortable bike. Most of that is the seat. My last KLR was an '01 model, maybe the seat on the '08 and up has improved. I haven't tried it. But this is not the best place for a large scooter with small wheels. It's hard to see just where those wheels are going, and you will KNOW it when you hit a pothole/bomb crater. With my small scooters I can weave my way around between most of the worst stuff. The interstates are still in pretty decent shape, they still get federal money to keep those maintained.

I actually wonder why maxi scooters even exist. If the main attraction is the automatic transmission, why not build a motorcycle with an automatic transmission? I know it has been tried and it failed, but times are different. Seems to me a nice comfortable automatic motorcycle with shaft drive, full size wheels, and storage capacity would be better than a maxi scooter. Such a motorcycle would of course have to be priced no higher than the scooters. Honda's DN-01 for example was an expensive joke.
I agree with you on the KLR as a rough-road mile eater. A Seat Concepts seat kit eliminates the problems with the seat for a reasonable price.

I haven't ridden a small-wheel scooter for about 25 years, so I can't comment on the modern breed. Both of mine had large wheels.

The CVT transmission on most modern scooters is actually a very trick piece of gear. It came to us from the snowmobile world, and is now being used on small automobiles. It is virtually maintenance-free (changing belts and variator weights around 15k miles is necessary, but there is no day to day attention required.) Unlike the dual-clutched electronic transmissions offered by several manufacturers, notably Aprilia and Honda, there are very few parts and very little complexity. And CVT means that the ratios are continuously variable. They can be tuned for optimal performance or optimal economy. They hit either the most efficient or most powerful part of the power band and sit there. Unlike shaft-drives (I currently own 4 shaft-driven bikes) there is no torque reaction when power is applied. Further, they are significantly lighter weight than a gear/shaft set up.

It's an ideal set-up in urban traffic, where constant stopping and starting is necessary. There is simply no comparison between the two in ease of hill-starting, particularly with a passenger. The scooter wins hands-down.

Most scooters have a lower center of gravity than a comparable motorcycle, which also cuts the work load. They also have more storage off the shelf than almost all motorcycles. I had no problem fitting a week's groceries on mine.

Inmate Barbsironbutt took the Scarabeo 500 out to Wyoming from Vermont with her daughter on pillion this summer, riding a total of over 5050 miles and carrying gear for both of them. She'd tried several other bikes in preparation for the trip. The combination of low CG and low work load made her feel much more secure. This wasn't a milk run. She did several days over 600 miles, and was in temperatures up to 105 degrees on major highways. She was consistently running at speeds of 70 or above. The Scarabeo has a top speed of around 105 mph, which made it more than competent on the interstates.

The scooter, a single, used very little oil (significantly less than a KLR would have!), and the only mechanical issue was a heat shield coming loose on the muffler.

Scooters and motorcycles are similar, but not the same. The decision which to choose comes down to the nature of your riding. I wouldn't take my KDX200 on an extended pavement ride. I also wouldn't take a scooter in the woods. However, I would argue that each has a proper place, and that a maxi-scooter is no less competent a tourer than a motorcycle of comparable displacement.

Besides, scoots are darn fun to ride!
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #81
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IMO the biggest advantage of a scooter over a motorcycle is weather protection. On many scoots you will stay pretty dry even in the rain as long as you can keep moving thanks to the leg shields that extend all the way down to become floorboards.

The things I don't like about the new maxi scooters is the CVT, all the plastic, and the seating position. I prefer to be able to control the RPM at any given speed rather than be stuck at whatever the CVT rollers are set for. Paying hundreds of dollars to replace a piece of plastic that breaks when the scoot is knocked over is a no go for me. Until they make an all metal scooter with a manual transmission and upright seating position I'll stick with motorcycles.

For many years I rode an old Vespa Rally 200 both as a commuter and long distance tourer. I've also done many long tours on a CX500 and a GL1000. Except for the limited power, the Vespa was my favorite.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:04 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugemoth;20070863I
Paying hundreds of dollars to replace a piece of plastic that breaks when the scoot is knocked over is a no go for me.
Understood, but most bikes now are buried in plastic as well. One slight get-off on my KLR caused over $200.00 damage all to plastic .

I think this is something that needs to be addressed on bikes and scooters as well. Either that or make the dam*n plastic cheap to replace!!!
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:27 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doogiepooch View Post
I've seen side cases on a Burg before but only one and it was on the net not in person. Its the underseat storage that makes it so appealing. You ever looked in one? Fold the person in half and you could stuff a dead body in there.
The 10 day trip I did this summer, I had 2 dry bags strapped to the rear rack and that was to much stuff. Yes you could replicate that storage on the KLR but it would take 2 large side cases and probably still a top box. In a quick google search says 400 burgs have 62 liters. But it's better shaped than most side cases. Side cases are tall and skinny. Under the seat I can put 2 full faces and have room so stuff more junk around it. But I don't need the helmet storage....I could have put all my stuff for that trip under the seat. Stops, I wouldn't have felt like I had to sit by the window all the time blah blah blah. Not to mention in just everyday use, groceries, hardware store etc. Not to mention all the cubbies up front for stuff. A few poeple have mentioned a Burg won't offroad or even gravel road but that's not what I'm looking for. I don't offroad my KLR. I suppose I'm strictly comparing the touring and daily riding capabilites of each machine on road.
I looked at the Burg 400 & 650. I felt the 400 did not offer enough storage for me, while the 650 seemed to have adequate cargo space without having to add side cases if such case exists. But I probably haul more due to my need to camp & cook at the campsite. But the B 650 just seems SO BIG!
Sounds to me like you talked yourself into a Burg 400. Or maybe you should look at the Wee 650. That's what I have. Fantastic all around machine. Maybe little buzzy at extended high speed travel on super slab.

BTW, Nelson Rigg soft cases with nerf bars work well on a KLR and are not tall & skinny. You can squeeze lots into one.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:46 PM   #84
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Strange because the 400 actually had a little more storage space than the 650.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:30 PM   #85
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Strange because the 400 actually had a little more storage space than the 650.
Maybe I am mistaken? Looked bigger to me.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #86
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As far as storage goes vs the KLR, you can't ignore floorboard on a maxi scooter. If you pick a model with a flat floorboard you can haul all sorts of odd shaped items right at your feet. When I need to fill my 5 gallon gas can I just drop it on my floorboard and head to the gas station. Try hauling a full 5 gallon gas can on a KLR. Not saying it can't be done but it's not going to be as simple as dropping it at your feet.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:22 PM   #87
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One big problem with the CVT as used on scooters is that it has nowhere near the gear range as a manual transmission. It is severely lacking on the low end. This becomes very obvious on my 125cc scooters. They run out of gear pretty quick trying to climb hills. The lowest ratio available on the CVT is nowhere near low enough for most hills. OTOH, my Genuine Stella with a manual transmission will literally crawl up a steep grade in first gear, barely moving but keeping the engine in the powerband. This prevents engine lugging, bogging, and eventual engine damage due to putting to much of a load on an engine in to high a gear. The big scooters have enough power that they can get away with a limited gear range. But a true automatic transmission, like in most cars, is the real answer. Either that or a CVT with dual range, like the old Honda trail bikes. Some way to get a much lower gear when you need one. I would prefer an actual automatic transmission with a torque converter.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:38 PM   #88
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Burg

Hello,

Nope can't do it. That is, talk you out of it, wont even try.
7 Yrs ago had foot operation so couldn't shift. Bought a 250 Elite so I could still ride. Would go up Ortega Hwy, twisties to Hells Kitchen eating establishment on my scoot in shorts, sandals, cast and crutches. Had 1150gs, Guzzi Bassa, r100gs P/D and Transalp sitting home taking a break. Saw a 650 Burgman in Salt Lake on Fleabay that a lot of plastic that was busted up. Drove and rented trailer to pick up and take home, lots of snow. Put 20,000 miles on that 03 and didn't touch it. A couple of years ago saw 03 650 for sale, bought it off Suzuki employee. Had 223 miles on it, now has 12,000 on it, not touched.Now this is not a dual sport but IS an adventure bike as it will go every where on asphalt as smooth and effort free as any bike out there. Took it out to Ocotillo Wells and went 10 miles down desert road!! If in pouring down rain 80 mph you will barely get wet from waist down. The manual paddle shifters let you put RPMs to work and help braking down hill. 45-50 mpg, super comfortable seat and ergos for me. Just put front and back tires on at 10,000 miles. Will race Harleys with gusto and smoke them in twisties with ease. Excellent brakes, 3 discs, and still have lots of wear left. Have large Givi on back but Chase Harper cl850 humongus throw over bags work perfect to haul as much as any KLR. I know as I have a dr650 with tank bag, Ortliebs or the cl850, Rotopax, Cvclerack with a 40' atv rack over that with giant North Face scuba bag. liked this one over Silverwing as like the shifters. I always have more than 1 bike, now I have 4 but this is a keeper. Not a sport bike rider but surprise lot of sportbike riders on all bikes in twisties as having rode Ortega for 45 yrs.
If you are NOT going in dirt this scooter will do all that is asked and more, also very easy on any passenger, comfy with backrest, floorboards and SMOOOOOTH.
I know, tell us what you really think.
PS. I do like the looks of the Scarabeo. Good luck with your decision, LeBron made his, you can make yours.

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Old 11-19-2012, 12:29 PM   #89
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Here is the deal, I have a 400 Burgman and love it. I grew up on dirt bikes, moved to the street during the 2-stroke era in the early 70's, and continued right through to a 1800 Wing. i have 4 bikes in the garage and the one that is ridden the most is the Burgman 400 Here is the straight poop; If you want to travel and have a bike that is easy to live with the rest of the time, go for a maxi scooter. Scooters are about compromise, they are not as comfortable as a touring bike, nor can you haul as much stuff, they don't handle as well as a sport bike and they don't dual sport like a KLR, but they do all these things better than any one other bike that I know of, meaning they tour well, can get down a winding road pretty damn fast, and if you get to a gravel road, it will keep going as long as the incline is not too steep. If you are over 5'6", you will have no trouble flat footing it. I rode all the maxi's and bought the 400 Burgman because performance wise it is not far off the 600's, but a nice step up from the Majesty. It has better wind protection than all but the 650 Burgman and is comfort able. It is a 2005 with 38,000 miles on it, I can ride 190 miles on a tank of gas before looking for a gas station. As far as using oil, don't fill it up to the top mark on the dip stick and run a good synthetic oil and I have had no problems. Maintanence- if you do everything on your KLR, you will have no problem doing the same withthe scooter. I get 15,000 miles on the rear tire and 20 something on the front. Valve adjustments are easy, just alot of body work to take off. After you do it once, the second time goes alot faster! CVT trannys are simple as dirt, but a head wind is their enemy (revs more than a transmission on a bike).
If I was going to use mine more for trips I would change a few things: Taller shield, heavier weights in the variator and some form of cruise control. I hope this helps.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:32 PM   #90
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I'm 40, been riding since I was 12. Started on a YZ80 and have owned and ridden lots of different bikes. I fell in love with scooters after trying one a few years ago. Kept my WR450 for dirt adventures, scrubbed everything else and got a Kymco 300i. Thought I'd miss shifting, turns out I don't. My riding buddy, first laughed, then he cried when he realized I wasn't joking. Then we went on a thousand mile trip. Somewhere between me whooping his butt on corners, keeping up on straights, my stuff staying locked and dry, the heavy rain going mostly around, instead of on me, quiet engine, and getting 70mpg's, he finally got it. He's the only one who's ever said anything, and it wasn't disparaging, just shock. My only regret is, I didn't wait for the BMW C600. I still love riding motorcycles, but now I love scooters too. But then, there's not much on two wheels I don't like. If you have any reservations and are concerned about what people think, then run right down to the Harley dealer and buy your manhood and join the sea of other middle class noobs on bikes. Otherwise, buy what you like.

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