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Old 11-12-2012, 09:26 PM   #16
seraph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexnut View Post
I believe Aprilias under 200cc are assembled in China. I have seen some with a made in China sticker.

The Piaggio Fly/ Typhoon are assembled in China.

Vespa has a manufacturing plant in India for the Asian market and is doing some manufacturing in Vietnam. Vespas for the US are assembled in Italy but with parts from many other countries. But its only a matter of time......

Heck the wheels on my Kymco are stamped made in Italy.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/commu...n-vietnam.aspx

http://www.bikedekho.com/bike-news/p...-baramati.html
I'll have to look for that on the Piaggios and Aprilias next time I'm in a shop. I don't doubt it, the Flys and SportCities are pretty inexpensive. And just so my position is clear: I do not own, and have never at any time owned, a Vespa, least of all a modern one. No Kool-aid here!

A shop in Vietnam and India is no surprise, they've done similar before. It helps save on shipping costs - and import tariffs. Vespa's done it before, with Bajaj and LML in India and PGO in Taiwan (yes, the companies that make Genuine's lineup were all previous Piaggio partners). Vespas have also been built in Germany (half a century ago), and Lambrettas were also built in India and Spain. Hell, Harley's opening shop in India (for the local market) and KTM has a partnership with Bajaj (for the local market + export). Honda and Yamaha both make bikes in Taiwan. Some Triumphs are made in Thailand.

In my opinion it's not worth fretting about where a vehicle is made anymore - just how nice the end product is.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:53 PM   #17
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In my opinion it's not worth fretting about where a vehicle is made anymore - just how nice the end product is.
Yes, but where the vehicle is made can still be a pretty good indication of how nice it is going to be - especially after it's been used for a couple of years. Some examples:

- Honda makes their CBR250R in Thailand and in India. Those made in Thailand have been pretty good. those made in India are of much poorer quality.

- SYM is a Taiwanese brand, but they actually manufacture some of their models in mainland China (as does Kymco for that matter). Until very recently, our dealers offered 4 year warranty on models made in Taiwan, but only half of that on those made in China. Clearly, they themselves don't have the same confidence in both!

- Honda's old CB250 (parallel twin) was made in Japan and was practically indestructible. It was finally replaced by another CB250, this one a single that was made in Brazil. It was nowhere near as reliable and lasting as the original one.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #18
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According to SIP the 125cc comes with 8,7 kW (11,8 PS) at 8250rpm, the 150cc version has 9,7 kW (13,2 PS) at 8000rpm.Piaggio Germany plans to launche the model in the 2nd quarter of 2013. The new Vespa will supposedly cost round about 8.000, http://www.sip-scootershop.com/commu...d-in-2013.aspx

What that means if it comes to the US who knows but if the BMW and other scooter pricing US - EU pricing parallels hold it will be around $8,000 without the ABS.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by cdwise View Post
if the BMW and other scooter pricing US - EU pricing parallels hold it will be around $8,000 without the ABS.
And in turn if US - AU parallels hold, it would make it over A$10,000 down here. I hope this is wrong, because it is simply absurd amount of money. Hell will freeze over before I will even consider spending this kind of cash on 125cc scooter!
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Old 11-13-2012, 07:54 PM   #20
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I have owned 2 Corvettes, a '74 and a '77. This was over 20 years ago, when these years were not really valuable. But I got into the whole thing in a big way, joined the NCRS, subscribed to all the magazines, went to all the local meetings, etc, until after spending over $10,000 on parts and getting pretty much nowhere, decided that restoring Corvettes was too expensive a hobby for me, so I sold them and went on to other things. But one thing I remember was one member of the group had a fit, and sold his nearly new ('92-'94?) Corvette after finding the wheels were made by Enkei in Japan. To some people the national origin of a vehicle is everything, it's important to me. My '01 Chevy sedan is a hodgepodge of parts from all over the world, but it is a disposable transportation car, so I don't really care. But my '64 Fairlane is 100% American made, my '72 Pinto wagon is American made except for the engine and transmission, which came from Germany. I cannot find any Asian parts on it. It still has the American made Appliance aluminum slotted wheels on it that it came from the factory with.

Some things, like Corvettes and Harleys, have such a strong American heritage that I can see someone not being happy about Asian parts on them. Same thing with BMW and Porsche. They are German, and the fact that they are German has a lot to do with their perceived value. Put Chinese parts on them, and that value drops. Chinese parts and products have such a stigma attached to them that it seems the Chinese did their very best to earn it. It's not easy being the worst of the worst. To most people, Chinese means junk. Someone on another scooter forum even coined a word for it, putting Chinese and junk together in one word. Chunk.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #21
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To most people, Chinese means junk. Someone on another scooter forum even coined a word for it, putting Chinese and junk together in one word. Chunk.
My 2c, not worth anything more though!
Also, right up front, not being argumentative, I have my own opinion, and that's what most of the previous comments are.......

The Chinese are businessmen, always have been. They are also extremely pragmatic. If you want cheap nasty shite, they will give it to you, coz that's what you want. If you want excellent quality, that's what you'll get.

There is a higher margin in cheapo nasty crap and also volume than decent quality stuff that a lot of people can't afford. I rekn if you're going to blame anyone for the rise and rise of Chinese industry, and the proliferation of cheap crap, then perhaps look instead to the billionaire importers who foist all this shite on us and have done for the last 50 years, to the extent of driving competitors of quality products against the wall. Ina consumer society people are DRIVEN to buy stuff, no matter if it's shite or shiny, it's drilled into their heads from birth and they can't help it. Cheap or good to them doesn't matter.

My little Sportcity One is made in China, and the quality is far in advance of the air-cooled Japanese bikes from the '80s, and at least equal to most of the bikes of the early '90s from Japan. I should know, I've ridden and worked on them since they first came out.

Oh yeah, and no, I'm not ethnic Chinese.
But I have a habit of standing up for people who don't get a voice of their own.........

Now, anyone else with further updates? Me personally, I'd pay 3/4 of the price of a GTS 300 for one of these things, ticks all the right boxes for me!
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MODNROD screwed with this post 11-13-2012 at 08:54 PM
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:48 AM   #22
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POINTLESS UPDATE:

Gee, it's a pretty scoot, init? Sleek and subtly-curved classic Italian design, not a hint of the bulbous fat-assedness of the 250-300 series.

Seems like just what the early, strictly plain-old-basic-urban-transport Vespas, made for a destroyed economy, would have evolved to as time passed, prosperity returned, the marque maturing, and acquiring the cachet of style and luxury it now enjoys. Come a long, long way from little 2T stinkers in sheet-steel hulls stamped out in repurposed 1940s aircraft plants, eh?

I could see it; buying one (assuming an unlikely confluence of miracles; that it would be imported here, that i would be somehow showered with unexpected and disposible geetas), a younger self in well-appointed fashion, boots and googles, in louche sprawl outside a coffee shop jammed with hipsters, just waiting for another chance to pronounce that charming word "quarantasei."

Capiche?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MODNROD View Post
Oh yeah, and no, I'm not ethnic Chinese.
What!? geez...and I thought i was a good judge of character ...
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryH View Post
I have owned 2 Corvettes, a '74 and a '77. This was over 20 years ago, when these years were not really valuable. But I got into the whole thing in a big way, joined the NCRS, subscribed to all the magazines, went to all the local meetings, etc, until after spending over $10,000 on parts and getting pretty much nowhere, decided that restoring Corvettes was too expensive a hobby for me, so I sold them and went on to other things. But one thing I remember was one member of the group had a fit, and sold his nearly new ('92-'94?) Corvette after finding the wheels were made by Enkei in Japan. To some people the national origin of a vehicle is everything, it's important to me. My '01 Chevy sedan is a hodgepodge of parts from all over the world, but it is a disposable transportation car, so I don't really care. But my '64 Fairlane is 100% American made, my '72 Pinto wagon is American made except for the engine and transmission, which came from Germany. I cannot find any Asian parts on it. It still has the American made Appliance aluminum slotted wheels on it that it came from the factory with.

Some things, like Corvettes and Harleys, have such a strong American heritage that I can see someone not being happy about Asian parts on them. Same thing with BMW and Porsche. They are German, and the fact that they are German has a lot to do with their perceived value. Put Chinese parts on them, and that value drops. Chinese parts and products have such a stigma attached to them that it seems the Chinese did their very best to earn it. It's not easy being the worst of the worst. To most people, Chinese means junk. Someone on another scooter forum even coined a word for it, putting Chinese and junk together in one word. Chunk.
I absolutely get the preference of national origin on products, especially vehicles. Besides being a good car, a large part of why I ended up with my Ford Focus was that it was made in the States - though of parts from all over the world (designed by Ford in Germany, engine by Mazda who was then part-owned by Ford, components from all across the globe I'm sure).

But it does keep getting less and less realistic to only buy things made only in the USA (or Germany or Japan or whathaveyou). On the Corvette front, news recently broke that the C7 Corvette is likely to get a transmission made by Aisin, a Japanese company, since Chevy doesn't have their own box together yet.

And on any modern vehicle - be it a Corvette or a Harley or a fancy new Vespa - I'd be willing to wager that, at the very least, much of the electronics are made somewhere in Asia. ECUs, sensors, etc. - we just don't have much by way of electronics manufacturing like that here.

And that Corvette guy is crazy - should've just sold off the wheels! Easy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MODNROD View Post
My 2c, not worth anything more though!
Also, right up front, not being argumentative, I have my own opinion, and that's what most of the previous comments are.......

The Chinese are businessmen, always have been. They are also extremely pragmatic. If you want cheap nasty shite, they will give it to you, coz that's what you want. If you want excellent quality, that's what you'll get.

There is a higher margin in cheapo nasty crap and also volume than decent quality stuff that a lot of people can't afford. I rekn if you're going to blame anyone for the rise and rise of Chinese industry, and the proliferation of cheap crap, then perhaps look instead to the billionaire importers who foist all this shite on us and have done for the last 50 years, to the extent of driving competitors of quality products against the wall. Ina consumer society people are DRIVEN to buy stuff, no matter if it's shite or shiny, it's drilled into their heads from birth and they can't help it. Cheap or good to them doesn't matter.

My little Sportcity One is made in China, and the quality is far in advance of the air-cooled Japanese bikes from the '80s, and at least equal to most of the bikes of the early '90s from Japan. I should know, I've ridden and worked on them since they first came out.

Oh yeah, and no, I'm not ethnic Chinese.
But I have a habit of standing up for people who don't get a voice of their own.........

Now, anyone else with further updates? Me personally, I'd pay 3/4 of the price of a GTS 300 for one of these things, ticks all the right boxes for me!
Absolutely. China, India, Taiwan, Mexico... all of these places are capable of turning out high quality products if the parent or contract company demands ir.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by redhandmoto View Post
a younger self in well-appointed fashion, boots and googles, in louche sprawl outside a coffee shop jammed with hipsters, just waiting for another chance to pronounce that charming word "quarantasei."
Imagine the look on their faces when I buy the thing, polish the alloy bits and chrome the rest (chrome is my favourite colour), throw in another 5 to 10HP, then yank the front tyre down the street past their fashionably-held coffee cups..........

Sorry for not being ethnic of any sort RHM! My family has lived on the pimple on the bottom of the world since 1811, and I unfortunately have the very un-blue blood of about 4 different Euro countries mixed with a bit of old-world Gypsy and the tiniest bit of local Type B+, just enough to make me enjoy going for long rides in inhospitable country on a regular basis.

Just another bitsa Aussie!
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MODNROD View Post
I buy the thing ... throw in another 5 to 10HP...
ah! quarantasei con brio!

946 comes out in Germany next month or something, yes? That means they'll have done just that in six weeks...
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:17 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by redhandmoto View Post
ah! quarantasei con brio!

946 comes out in Germany next month or something, yes? That means they'll have done just that in six weeks...
The 946 is using the same 3-valve as the new LX and S bikes (though we haven't gotten that motor in the US yet) so I suspect the Germans probably already have it sorted. Or maybe the Italians do... looks like there's a Malossi 187 kit that should fit the new 3v motor. Pricey, though.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:55 PM   #27
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... looks like there's a Malossi 187 kit that should fit the new 3v motor. Pricey, though.
Holy-Moley! Five hundred forty-four frogskins. and change. und ze zchipping, mein herr.
mit Platin ausgeszeichnet!!
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:47 PM   #28
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12 inch wheels on this Vespa which is unusual for their 125cc. I think it's a better choice than the 10 inch wheels.
It sure looks good in white with that red seat...
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:50 PM   #29
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And a short video (in French) right here:
http://www.scooter-station.com/Video...-Milan-se.html
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:04 PM   #30
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Yellow is nice...
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