ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Some Assembly Required
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-11-2012, 04:15 PM   #16
sailah
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,310
That ducati is sweet. I keep wanting to do a ducati, maybe next time.

The pace I keep going I'll have one of every manufacturer
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 04:50 PM   #17
Pezz_gs
Cant ride for crap
 
Pezz_gs's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney Skunkworks
Oddometer: 3,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
That ducati is sweet. I keep wanting to do a ducati, maybe next time.

The pace I keep going I'll have one of every manufacturer
I suffer from the same big thoughts
__________________
Airhead Tragic
I'm not a complete idiot -- Some parts are missing
XR460/4 - http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497905


Pezz_gs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #18
vtwin
Air cooled runnin' mon
 
vtwin's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: NorCal
Oddometer: 7,048
Perhaps you should start with a Vstrom and start stripping it down to lose some weight? It has a nice Vee twin engine to start with, large fuel tank and lot's of options. An inmate has modded a lot of totalled ones.
__________________
"Alles hat ein Ende--nur die Wurst, sie hat zwei"
Monroe.

"You only have too much fuel if you're on fire"
unknown
vtwin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 10:46 AM   #19
2trally OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRaptor22 View Post
Well I have seen a few guys swap engines into their Sv650s using one piece mounting plates that bolt to the engines, then to the frame so if you have some decent layout skills just bolting an engine in is not hard, making it look good and sturdy is different however.

Maybe expand your net of engines to the suzuki twins as well, size wise they are close to what you are looking at, slightly better power on a similar curve and much improved reliability as well, plus you will have a much better choice of swingarms and wheels as well.

Given you will have to build a place to mount the swingarms as they bolt to the frame vs the engine cases.

Apparently the 848 Streetfighter is very reliable. The SV 650 would be much easier to maintain though. I assume you mean lower power by saying better power?
2trally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 03:34 PM   #20
RedRaptor22
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Louisiana
Oddometer: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2trally View Post
Apparently the 848 Streetfighter is very reliable. The SV 650 would be much easier to maintain though. I assume you mean lower power by saying better power?
They make them in two sizes, I was talking about the 1000, I must have left that out when redoing my post.
RedRaptor22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 08:12 PM   #21
anonny
What could go wrong?
 
anonny's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Beautiful Revelstoke BC
Oddometer: 5,438
If you have the money and time I'd advise you to build it, otherwise how will you ever know. I love this kind of stuff!
__________________
Kawasaki H1 build thread

71- 450 Honda CL re & re

Just another pathetic sheep following the herd

anonny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 04:47 PM   #22
2trally OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRaptor22 View Post
They make them in two sizes, I was talking about the 1000, I must have left that out when redoing my post.
On dirt there could be an argument for lower power being better so I wasn't sure. 120-130hp is probably too much in most off-road situations.
2trally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 04:51 PM   #23
2trally OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pezz_gs View Post

Has anybody done this with a hypermotard? Its 1/2 the way there already.


edit: I didn't know Ducati started making a liquid cooled hypermotard. 821cc, 110 hp, 5.9" rear travel, 6.7" front travel. It would be a way better candidate than the 848.

2trally screwed with this post 11-14-2012 at 04:57 PM
2trally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 05:12 PM   #24
sailah
Lampin' it
 
sailah's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Turning expensive metal into scrap
Oddometer: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2trally View Post
On dirt there could be an argument for lower power being better so I wasn't sure. 120-130hp is probably too much in most off-road situations.
My FZ1 has 145HP And yes, it's WAY too much in the dirt, street though...
__________________
We're not out here to rough it. We're here to smooth it . Things are rough enough in town.

Nessmuk
sailah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 06:45 PM   #25
RedRaptor22
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Louisiana
Oddometer: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2trally View Post
On dirt there could be an argument for lower power being better so I wasn't sure. 120-130hp is probably too much in most off-road situations.
And a lot has to do with how and where the power is delivered as well, the suzuki Sv twins are fairly linear with lots of midrange, vs the peaky power band of an inline and even some of the other twins such as most ducati twins and even suzuki's own TLR twin was fairly peaky in comparison, it's all a compromise, generally for more dirt and gravel I would go for something with more midrange as opposed to bottom or top end power.
RedRaptor22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 10:47 PM   #26
2trally OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 62
Yup midrange is good. I suppose its kind of ironic, but the engine currently in my Buell makes good power for dirt. Good traction on hardpack even with pirelli scorpion syncs.

Take the engine swap out of this build and it becomes a lot easier. I wanted to use a different engine just because modifying the bike with the stock engine presents problems of its own, and I've never been a fan of the Harley twin. It's just too damn car-like. 6500 rpm redline and low maintenance bore me for some stupid reason.

Anyway, back to the problems of using the stock engine. Most of them stem from the swingarm. I want to run chain drive so I would have to add adjusters. As previously mentioned, cast aluminum is not easy to weld. There is always the bond and rivet approach but I doubt I could pull that off. And even if I could I don't know if I could trust it. Needless to say, I don't have lotus' engineering abilities.

So using the stock swingarm is out and that requires me to find a place for the oil tank on top of trying to find/make a swingarm that will work.

I like the exhaust placement on the stock bike, but if I put long travel suspension on and want to keep the seat height down I need to gain a lot of clearance. There is about 5 inches from the bottom of the exhaust to the bottom of the oil filter so I could gain upwards of 4.5" of clearance if I reroute the exhaust. That means modifying the headers and creating a whole new exhaust system aft of the headers. I might be able to steal some pipes off of an XR1200, but it would still take a decent amount of fabrication.

Since it's not just a simple suspension swap I figured I might as well get the most for my work and swap in an engine I would love. But I think that I underestimated the work to swap a new engine in. I'm not saying the idea is trashed but I have to think about it some more.

Sorry if I sound like one of those people that's always talking about doing things and never actually does anything. I always intended this thread to be a sounding board. I wanted to attempt to predict the biggest problems I'd likely have and I think that goal has been met. I read the SAR rules and I think this was the right place to put this, if it wasn't, sorry, I'm still a noob.

2trally screwed with this post 11-15-2012 at 11:12 PM
2trally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 03:46 AM   #27
BikePilot
Beastly Adventurer
 
BikePilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Tampa
Oddometer: 11,175
Seems possible, but imo not worth doing. I think it'd be more work than building a custom frame around the 848. One problem with using street bikes off road is most folks still end up with horrendous ergonomics. Last thing you want in the dirt is a big street tank (or filter cover) stretching a long way between the seat and the bars.

A big tank on a ktm superenduro would be hard to beat, even after a lot of work. If you really want lighter than the KTM maybe find an old Highland 950.

I'm not sure the Uly frame will ever be very good off road. Definitely needs major geometry changes, even then the egronomics will be screwy. Also, the short wheelbase isn't your friend off road neither is the width. I like my uly a lot, but it's really surprisingly bad off road (my bandit 1250 was better).

A KTM690 is mighty good off road and not too bad on-road if you want really light. If you need more power, building a forced-induction, 100+hp 690 would have to be easier than making a uly chassis work off road. You could also try swapping in a compact twin like a pimped out Ninja 650 motor into an XR650R or big KTM single chassis.
__________________
'09 Buell XB12XT, TL1000S, H1F, M620, CR250R, KX100, XR650R, Cota 315R

Summer 2009 Ride Report http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...1509c&t=507038
Summer 2008 RR. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367703
BikePilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:02 AM   #28
2trally OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 62
I went over the geometry changes I would have to make. But ya I never have been sure about ergonomics. With the amount of work that had to be done I know I could make them better, but there isn't much I could do about the seat. Tilting the frame back and making my own subrame would move it forward a little, but not enough to make it perfect.

A turboed KTM 690 would be crazy. I wonder how difficult it would be to make it reliable. At the least it would need lower compression and an improved cooling system. I think an oil cooler would be necessary if I didn't want to change the oil every 500 miles. If I wasn't worried about making 20+ hp I could probably leave the head alone. Hopefully the stock bottom end could take an extra 10, 15 hp without grenading. If I could get low enough compression with a thicker head gasket I might not even have to change the piston.

Damnit quit giving me ideas, I have too many already.
2trally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 09:18 AM   #29
2trally OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Arizona
Oddometer: 62
Whew, I can get the turbo idea outa my head. I want to be able to do water crossing, and water on a hot turbo = useless turbo with some warped turbines. I'm not 100% sure about that but for turbo cars and trucks they recommend letting the car idle for a minute before you shut the engine off to keep the turbines from cooling too quickly. Even in a setup were the turbo doesn't get very hot (relative to something like an rx7) dunking the thing in water would cool it more quickly than a rapid shutoff from high rpm and would definitely cause damage. And besides all that, the 690 makes good enough power already. If I got one I would be more concerned about making the electrical system reliable and getting some extra range.
2trally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 02:46 PM   #30
Hughlysses
Beastly Adventurer
 
Hughlysses's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Summerville, SC
Oddometer: 3,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2trally View Post
Whew, I can get the turbo idea outa my head. I want to be able to do water crossing, and water on a hot turbo = useless turbo with some warped turbines. I'm not 100% sure about that but for turbo cars and trucks they recommend letting the car idle for a minute before you shut the engine off to keep the turbines from cooling too quickly. Even in a setup were the turbo doesn't get very hot (relative to something like an rx7) dunking the thing in water would cool it more quickly than a rapid shutoff from high rpm and would definitely cause damage. And besides all that, the 690 makes good enough power already. If I got one I would be more concerned about making the electrical system reliable and getting some extra range.
Water on the hot turbo housing isn't likely to affect the blades, but I can imagine you'd run a good risk of cracking the thing. The reason for letting a turbo idle for a while before shutting down is to give it a chance to cool down, so the oil doesn't "coke" around the bearing. Shutting down a turbo after a hard run with no cool-down period is just like dumping your oil in a hot frying pan and walking away from it. If you do this often enough, the coked oil eventually clogs up the return line and packs around the bearing so that fresh oil can't run through the turbo bearing, resulting in failure. Most recent turbos have a water jacket around the center section to provide convection cooling after you shut the engine down to help prevent coking.
__________________
2007 Buell XB12X Ulysses
1983 Honda VT500FT Ascot
Hughlysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 02:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014