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Old 06-19-2013, 02:54 PM   #2851
misanthropic
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Motogp is a mess right now. Honda it seems is in charge of the technical regulations and it's killing the sport. Take that power away from them, make the tech specs more affordable to all and if Honda threatens to leave so be it.
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #2852
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I remember hearing a Podcast where it mentioned King Kenney telling Honda to quit when they threatened to leave years ago. I wish I could find the exact source.. We need someone with Balls to do the same to them again.
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #2853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misanthropic View Post
Motogp is a mess right now. Honda it seems is in charge of the technical regulations and it's killing the sport. Take that power away from them, make the tech specs more affordable to all and if Honda threatens to leave so be it.
"New boss same as the old boss..."

What would stop Yamaha from doing the exact same thing Honda has been accused of? They aren't much different. Same for Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, BMW or anyone else. Very strong manufacturer influence is how the modern era works. Like it or not.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:03 PM   #2854
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Probably SoupKast by Honda from Dean.
And more than likely Noyes was the speaker.
I really like those podcasts.
http://www.soupkast.com/
I have them on my iPad at home so have to look there sometime.
Good hunting in iTunes.

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Originally Posted by dontlr View Post
I remember hearing a Podcast where it mentioned King Kenny telling Honda to quit when they threatened to leave years ago. I wish I could find the exact source.. We need someone with Balls to do the same to them again.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:33 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
"New boss same as the old boss..."

What would stop Yamaha from doing the exact same thing Honda has been accused of? They aren't much different. Same for Suzuki, Kawasaki, Ducati, BMW or anyone else. Very strong manufacturer influence is how the modern era works. Like it or not.
I don't disagree really but F1 has been dealing with this for years and they banned traction control a few years ago. I know that TA is considered a safety device by some but the level to which it has taken over has gone too far IMHO.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:39 PM   #2856
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The problem is its do hard to define what traction control is.

Is changing the timing curve for the first bit of the throttle TC?

Is it having a wheel sensor that tell the computer a wheel is spinning?

Is it a speed sensor that changes the timing when the bike is moving slow?

TC is part of the whole engine management system now. It would be easier to introduce a lower spec tire.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:22 PM   #2857
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Originally Posted by Parx400 View Post
The problem is its do hard to define what traction control is.

Is changing the timing curve for the first bit of the throttle TC?

Is it having a wheel sensor that tell the computer a wheel is spinning?

Is it a speed sensor that changes the timing when the bike is moving slow?

TC is part of the whole engine management system now. It would be easier to introduce a lower spec tire.
Tire changing and re-fueling
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Old 06-19-2013, 09:02 PM   #2858
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Tire changing and re-fueling
Don't forget grooved tires. MotoGP needs that too.
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Old 06-20-2013, 09:01 AM   #2859
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Originally Posted by misanthropic View Post
I know that TA is considered a safety device by some but the level to which it has taken over has gone too far IMHO.
It's pretty undeniable the impact TC has had on rider safety and attrition. They would need to be careful there.
In it's absence, complaints about the lack of competitive manufacturers on the grid could be replaced by the lack of competitive riders on the grid as we revert back the injury lists of 80's & 90's GPs!

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Old 06-20-2013, 09:19 AM   #2860
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It's pretty undeniable the impact TC has had on rider safety and attrition. They would need to be careful there.
In it's absence, complaints about the lack of competitive manufacturers on the grid could be replaced by the lack of competitive riders on the grid as we revert back the injury lists of 80's & 90's GPs!

They were 2 strokes back then. I don't believe the 4 stroke engines have the same hair trigger. However without TC we may indeed see more get-offs. Just not as many spectacular airborne examples we saw back then.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:05 AM   #2861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadholder View Post
It's pretty undeniable the impact TC has had on rider safety and attrition. They would need to be careful there.
In it's absence, complaints about the lack of competitive manufacturers on the grid could be replaced by the lack of competitive riders on the grid as we revert back the injury lists of 80's & 90's GPs!





Another image too huge to post: http://dso6oi9ai0q1l.cloudfront.net/...oGP-2012-3.jpg

Dennis Noyes ran some statistics on crashing. The rate at which riders crash remains unchanged, between the 500s and the MotoGP bikes. The point of racing is to find the limit. Racers sometimes step over the limit when looking for it.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:07 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Dennis Noyes ran some statistics on crashing. The rate at which riders crash remains unchanged, between the 500s and the MotoGP bikes. The point of racing is to find the limit. Racers sometimes step over the limit when looking for it.
I wonder the % of high-sides?
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:14 AM   #2863
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Originally Posted by ErikY. View Post
I wonder the % of high-sides?
I don't recall. I do recall Dennis saying that the number and of injuries was about the same. Improved gear has helped reduce the severity of some of them.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:16 AM   #2864
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post




Another image too huge to post: http://dso6oi9ai0q1l.cloudfront.net/...oGP-2012-3.jpg

Dennis Noyes ran some statistics on crashing. The rate at which riders crash remains unchanged, between the 500s and the MotoGP bikes. The point of racing is to find the limit. Racers sometimes step over the limit when looking for it.
3 low sides in turn 10 last weekend. I don't remember many lowsides in the 2 stroke era. I'm not talking about the rate of crashing, I'm talking about the types of crashes. With the 500s it seemed like it was more often than not a high side.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:24 AM   #2865
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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
3 low sides in turn 10 last weekend. I don't remember many lowsides in the 2 stroke era. I'm not talking about the rate of crashing, I'm talking about the types of crashes. With the 500s it seemed like it was more often than not a high side.
Indy 2012 three people highsided in the same corner. Rossi broke his leg at Mugello in a highside. Marquez had a massive highside at Austin this year. Smith had two highsides at Mugello, and Crutchlow has had at least one highside this year. The cause is different, cold tires usually, but the result is the same. MotoGP riders are getting a comparable amount of air to their 500cc forebears.

This is my point: racing is about finding the limit. Back in the 500 days, the riders knew that if they got too close to the limit, they would get tossed off, so they built in a safety margin. Now, the riders know that the TC will go a long way towards saving a highside, so the cozy right up the limit, and get as close as possible. They both end up highsiding as often, because riders have the same risk tolerance.

The same is true of increased safety in cars. Ordinary drivers now take more risks because they have ABS, air bags and structural protection to protect them. More crashes, though with the improved passive safety measures, fewer injuries.
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