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Old 06-29-2013, 07:46 AM   #2941
sailor22
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Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
Purists assume the sport would survive a level of obscurity. Its a risky assumption. Prototype racing at this level consumes cubic dollars and without the factory support the performance level would plummet. The separation between superbike and mgp has to be choreographed for both to survive - that's why they have one owner.
Yes, what he said. The AMA decided it didn't need the manufacturers and even with lots of NASCAR money and supposedly potential sponsors waiting in the wings there wasn't enough promo buzz to keep fan interest.

Besides the money spent on riders and bikes the manufacturers do a LOT of promotion, publicity and hospitality that directly translates into fan enthusiasm. It's their efforts that create the hero worship that keeps fan interest.
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:23 AM   #2942
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Paolo Ciabatti says Ducati is exploring offering a "production" bike for satellite teams next season.

Using the spec electronics and 24 liters of fuels is the distinction that would make it a "production" model.

Can't imagine Ducati could even give one away at this point.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/ducati+2014+plans
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Old 06-29-2013, 08:55 AM   #2943
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I am tired of seeing very good riders getting stuck with the Ducatis. And it's hard for me to say this, I am Italian. Think how good the races could have been seeing Dovi, Hayden, Iannone and Spies fighting together through the pack with a competitive ride. The sport (and the show) really would deserve something better.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:51 PM   #2944
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Originally Posted by auguzt View Post
I am tired of seeing very good riders getting stuck with the Ducatis. And it's hard for me to say this, I am Italian. Think how good the races could have been seeing Dovi, Hayden, Iannone and Spies fighting together through the pack with a competitive ride. The sport (and the show) really would deserve something better.
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Old 06-29-2013, 03:15 PM   #2945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Paolo Ciabatti says Ducati is exploring offering a "production" bike for satellite teams next season.

Using the spec electronics and 24 liters of fuels is the distinction that would make it a "production" model.

Can't imagine Ducati could even give one away at this point.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/ducati+2014+plans
Yeah, I can see them lining up already

and last season we all thought that the turnip trucks would improve this year. Let's see- today the factory Ducs, ridden by very experienced racers, finished behind:

a guy who broke his clavicle 2 days ago

a rookie with a broken finger and toe

another rookie (recovering from hand surgery- I forgot!)

a CRT bike (that is really BAD)


I'm beginning to wonder if MM could give the factory Ducati bikes a good race on his former Moto2 bike.


So, in the spirit of the Tour de France, maybe the Ducati factory wants to compete for the Lanterne Rouge. (if you don't know cycling- this is NOT a good competition)
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DC2wheels screwed with this post 06-30-2013 at 04:04 AM Reason: add'l info
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Old 06-29-2013, 03:19 PM   #2946
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Never fear Auguzt! The Germans have arrived! They love to win so this should translate into development dollars.

Obviously you can never count on anything. BMW has been upfront but is still without a WSBK championship. Tardozi had a fall out with the teutonic bosses which I think put them a step back when he left.

Fingers crossed the Audi boys use their development experience and carry it over with tons of cash to make Ducati a regular on the podium. This will obviously take a few years to sort things out with who can work with whom.

Bottom line... the more competitive bikes the more entertainment for us!

Now... if another Casey Stoner type superman can be found that could expedite things significantly. The best was watching him his first year on the third rate Honda riding the wheels off it until... they literally put him into the gravel trap. The Camera shot of the riders coming on to the straight starting with a bike cartwheeling across the gravel trap and a rider sliding through is unforgettable. He put his neck on the line to be noticed... and he was. Then he proved to Ducati he was a great investment. Loved it!

We'll see what happens but until then Yamaha and Honda have luckily put some great riders on the bikes to entertain us.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:27 AM   #2947
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No doubt Stoner had amazing talent, and he could "be one" with the Ducati like no-one else has been able to.

But in 2007 it was a lot different in many ways, the 1st season of the 800's, Ducati got that switch nailed right from the start, and Yamaha&Honda were struggling. Also that was the year when Michelin failed, and suddenly the Stones were the tyres to be on. They got that one just right, too. Not taking anything away from Stoner, but the bike was a lot more competitive against its main rivals back then, than it has been ever since. Their downward spiral is probably why Stoner left. Now they're neck-deep in a swamp, and don't seem to have a clue how to climb out.
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Old 06-30-2013, 01:41 AM   #2948
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
No doubt Stoner had amazing talent, and he could "be one" with the Ducati like no-one else has been able to.

But in 2007 it was a lot different in many ways, the 1st season of the 800's, Ducati got that switch nailed right from the start, and Yamaha&Honda were struggling. Also that was the year when Michelin failed, and suddenly the Stones were the tyres to be on. They got that one just right, too. Not taking anything away from Stoner, but the bike was a lot more competitive against its main rivals back then, than it has been ever since. Their downward spiral is probably why Stoner left. Now they're neck-deep in a swamp, and don't seem to have a clue how to climb out.
i dont know about neck deep...i think they truly dont know what to do tho.Lookk at VR,,a seemingly small change seemed to transform the Yamaha for him.Even that took longer than 80 seconds
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Old 06-30-2013, 03:50 AM   #2949
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:06 AM   #2950
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i dont know about neck deep...i think they truly dont know what to do tho.Lookk at VR,,a seemingly small change seemed to transform the Yamaha for him.Even that took longer than 80 seconds
Yes, look at VR: last year at Assen he was 13th on the Duc, and got lapped.

Well, at least Dovi and Nicky were "only" a bit more than half a minute behind the winner this time. A bit more than 1 second per lap, that they lost.

I do hope that they finally find some solutions, but its good to remember that they have not been competitive for many years, so Id be very surprised, if those solutions are just something very simple. I would think they would have figured those out a long long time ago.

Lately its been a career killer for everybody but Stoner and Rossi (And could have been for Rossi as well, if he were not such a superstar.)
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:48 AM   #2951
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Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
Prototype racing at this level consumes cubic dollars and without the factory support the performance level would plummet.
Someone has to bring the cubic dollars, either the manufacturers have to pay out of their own pocket, sponsors have to pay for the exposure and associated glamour, or Dorna has to pay through the sale of TV rights.

At the moment, only the TV rights are generating any cash, and the TV rights only do that by offering an entertaining spectacle. So MotoGP has to go down that road, unless the factories - all of them, and not just Honda - want to spend a ton of money to go racing.

The comparison with the AMA / DMG fiasco is not valid, IMHO. The AMA had just a single market, in a non-bike-friendly market. MotoGP has a global audience, and relies much less heavily on manufacturer input.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:49 AM   #2952
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
I have not seen that stated anywhere else. You must have some knowledge on the situation that is not public.
I do. I am aware through certain channels of private conversations that went on between Suzuki and Dorna.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:23 AM   #2953
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I think they'd have a hard time paying anybody to ride one of those.
Wait, they are doing that to four or five guys now.
I think Ducati need to kick the engineers in the ass, lock the accountants in the trunk of a car and leave it somewhere on a backstreet in Italy. Then go find a couple of old school tuners and a software guy who knows what a motorcycle is supposed to do.

The gamers they seem to be using apparently think racing with a "protection mode" on would work, if not there is a reset button.

The motor they have seems to be a light switch, the tuners would be the guys to spread that grunt out a good bit. All that top speed and high horsepower doesn't do much good if it only works at the end of the straight.
This ain't drag racing. Hose things need to brake deep into corners and have grunt enough to power out. Flick side to side quick and as the tires go off and the fuel loads go down the bike needs to react predictably. The riders Ducati have had are good enough to be able to deal with small stuff.

That is what make the Honda and Yamaha good, and fast. Good riders and predictable machines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
Paolo Ciabatti says Ducati is exploring offering a "production" bike for satellite teams next season.

Using the spec electronics and 24 liters of fuels is the distinction that would make it a "production" model.

Can't imagine Ducati could even give one away at this point.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/ducati+2014+plans
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #2954
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I think they'd have a hard time paying anybody to ride one of those.
Wait, they are doing that to four or five guys now.
I think Ducati need to kick the engineers in the ass, lock the accountants in the trunk of a car and leave it somewhere on a backstreet in Italy. Then go find a couple of old school tuners and a software guy who knows what a motorcycle is supposed to do.

The gamers they seem to be using apparently think racing with a "protection mode" on would work, if not there is a reset button.

The motor they have seems to be a light switch, the tuners would be the guys to spread that grunt out a good bit. All that top speed and high horsepower doesn't do much good if it only works at the end of the straight.
This ain't drag racing. Hose things need to brake deep into corners and have grunt enough to power out. Flick side to side quick and as the tires go off and the fuel loads go down the bike needs to react predictably. The riders Ducati have had are good enough to be able to deal with small stuff.

That is what make the Honda and Yamaha good, and fast. Good riders and predictable machines.
Wow why didn't Ducati think if this? Just hire a few of the right guys and those guys will get it fixed and competitive in no time.



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Old 07-01-2013, 07:28 AM   #2955
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