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Old 12-01-2012, 06:30 PM   #406
wbedient
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
What MotoGP riders do with a motorcycle is amazing but it isn't magic.
Understated but accurate!
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:48 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Skowinski View Post
Soooo... the world superbikes and the CRT's aren't much different in performance. Still don't get the point of the CRT's, aside from adding bikes and riders to the grid, they are just expensive fancy machines that are no better than a WSBK. If MotoGP is headed the way of CRT's then it may as well just dissapear.
Don't worry, there is some rule-making in WSBK ahead. After that, the CRT's will be well in front again.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:54 PM   #408
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All interesting comments and views;

Many years ago ( back in the dark ages) several of us were aspiring club level racers who at the prodding of the AMA to expand the field were herded in to running with the big boys at Daytona and other tracks that actually mattered at the time.

We were listening to Eddie Lawson giving us tips on how to get through some corners at Daytona a bit faster,
his advice " run it in as far as you can and then just flick the bitch" ( no mention of brakes or tire sliding)

All you would be wanna be racer boys can take that as some sound advice and just hike up your panties a bit .
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:53 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by DandyDoug View Post
All interesting comments and views;

Many years ago ( back in the dark ages) several of us were aspiring club level racers who at the prodding of the AMA to expand the field were herded in to running with the big boys at Daytona and other tracks that actually mattered at the time.

We were listening to Eddie Lawson giving us tips on how to get through some corners at Daytona a bit faster,
his advice " run it in as far as you can and then just flick the bitch" ( no mention of brakes or tire sliding)

All you would be wanna be racer boys can take that as some sound advice and just hike up your panties a bit .
BTDT. Got my lesson many years ago. Tried club racing- AAMRR- right around 1980. Lots of money (at the time) lots of time (had more of that back then) and after 2 years I was as clueless as I was before I started.

The people that can rise to the very top are extremely unique individuals.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:49 PM   #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DandyDoug View Post
All interesting comments and views;

Many years ago ( back in the dark ages) several of us were aspiring club level racers who at the prodding of the AMA to expand the field were herded in to running with the big boys at Daytona and other tracks that actually mattered at the time.

We were listening to Eddie Lawson giving us tips on how to get through some corners at Daytona a bit faster,
his advice " run it in as far as you can and then just flick the bitch" ( no mention of brakes or tire sliding)

All you would be wanna be racer boys can take that as some sound advice and just hike up your panties a bit .
somewhere in the past(it might have been Cycle magazine) there was a picture comparing "those who came to ride and those who came to race".It was a picture at a chicane or sharp corner maybe with haybales in close proximity.The pic of Eddie showed him at seemingly twice the lean angle of the others with helmet only inches away from aforementioned bales.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:22 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post

Any one here ever purposely close the throttle to induce a front end slide to scrub off speed?

Your sentence makes no sense...


No moto gp racer slide their front purposely to do anything...


They use front brake WITH grip to scrub off speed.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:56 PM   #412
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Your sentence makes no sense...


No moto gp racer slide their front purposely to do anything...


They use front brake WITH grip to scrub off speed.
once they begin turning i beleive they are sliding the front all the way to the point where they gas it up...They still have grip whilst sliding.Dont forget they are hard on the brakes and turning at the same time,they brake all the way in to the "gas it up point.If you arent on the brakes ,or on the throttle you are wasting time.There are probably some corners where this is not completely true.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:11 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by advNZer? View Post
once they begin turning i beleive they are sliding the front all the way to the point where they gas it up...They still have grip whilst sliding.Dont forget they are hard on the brakes and turning at the same time,they brake all the way in to the "gas it up point.If you arent on the brakes ,or on the throttle you are wasting time.There are probably some corners where this is not completely true.
They... We all ride bikes here, i trail the front all the way to the apex on track too.

Mdubya says: " close the throttle to induce front end slide " ... makes no sense.

We are talking about corner entry here, so at what part between braking point and apex you can induce a slide by closing the throttle... when you are allready heavy on the front brake, throttle CLOSED and engine braking.

And what is the reason to slide the front, to slow down, to get wider line... Better technicues for both of those than sliding the front.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:06 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by kyns View Post
They... We all ride bikes here, i trail the front all the way to the apex on track too.

Mdubya says: " close the throttle to induce front end slide " ... makes no sense.

We are talking about corner entry here, so at what part between braking point and apex you can induce a slide by closing the throttle... when you are allready heavy on the front brake, throttle CLOSED and engine braking.

And what is the reason to slide the front, to slow down, to get wider line... Better technicues for both of those than sliding the front.
we are talking corner entry on a motogp bike.I am responding to your post where you imply that they dont or should not slide.They are on the limit of traction,and they are sliding,ie there is some slippage between tyre and track
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:16 AM   #415
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And i am responding for Mdubya who say, pro racers use front end slide as a ROUTINE TECHNICUE to do something... I call a big pile of BS.


A slide is a black line on the track.


To trail the front, you need all the feel you can have, a slide at that point is not a good thing. The edge of front tire bending under pressure at full lean is not sliding. IMO

kyns screwed with this post 12-02-2012 at 01:23 AM
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:33 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by kyns View Post
And i am responding for Mdubya who say, pro racers use front end slide as a ROUTINE TECHNICUE to do something... I call a big pile of BS.


A slide is a black line on the track.


To trail the front, you need all the feel you can have, a slide at that point is not a good thing. The edge of front tire bending under pressure at full lean is not sliding. IMO
ok again i will agree to disagree
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:47 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by advNZer? View Post
ok again i will agree to disagree
Think you and I are reading from the same hymnal...
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:48 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by kyns View Post
And i am responding for Mdubya who say, pro racers use front end slide as a ROUTINE TECHNICUE to do something... I call a big pile of BS.


A slide is a black line on the track.


To trail the front, you need all the feel you can have, a slide at that point is not a good thing. The edge of front tire bending under pressure at full lean is not sliding. IMO
Try it sometime. Closing the throttle and releasing the front brake will make the front end slide. At that point, only the throttle will stop it from being a crash.

And I stand by my statement that the fastest guys do it all the time.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:00 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
If the front tire is on the ground with enough traction any turn of the handlebars will cause the bike to change lean angle (counter-steering). Anytime the bike is maintaining any given lean angle the front tire is following the exact line of travel unless its in the air or very close to it. "Steering into the slide" is basically the rider being completely relaxed on the handlebars, the bike's geometry keeps the front wheel pointed in the direction of travel on its own. If the rider is tense on the bars it makes the bike less stable, if he makes a steering input it changes lean angle.

I can tell you from experience (although not Pro experience) that the only way to change lean angle at 100mph or so is with a deliberate counter-steer. Brakes causes the bike to stand up and/or push wider, throttle with a small slide will tighten your line a bit (but remember you are accelerating which widens your line) and body steering doesn't do shit. If you want the bike to change lean angle, you need to counter-steer just like you do on the street.

What MotoGP riders do with a motorcycle is amazing but it isn't magic.
Very well said.

I think the crossed up front wheel often comes from that they are still trying to steer with the bars with the front wheel off the ground.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:01 AM   #420
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...but they still countersteer (the geometry change, not necessarily the input at the bars) into and out of every turn.


I agree with that.
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