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Old 10-01-2013, 01:15 PM   #4681
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I met with Bob Bahre a few years ago when he was exploring the sale of Loudon. I worked for an investment bank at the time. As I recall, the track netted about $20 million per year from their two Cup dates. I think he said the track got 20% of the TV money for each event. I believe the drivers and teams got a healthy slice of it too. The track kept 100% of the gate and provided the drivers their purse money.

As a side bar, the numbers tossed around were about $200 million for the facility. Since the two cup dates provided almost all of the track revenue/profits and the France family decided who got what dates, I complained to Bahre that he was at great risk. That the France organization could pull his dates and award them to one of the tracks in their International Speedway company.

He said he wasn't worried about that. That they had been doing business for a long time.

Of course, he eventually sold it to Bruton Smith for $300 million.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
Dorna charges a fee to bring in their "show." Tracks make money by selling ticket packages, vendor space and sponsorships. The track (or promoter renting the track) takes the risk, not Dorna. Laguna Seca management states it costs about nine million dollars to put on the MotoGP race. http://www.montereyherald.com/news/c...guna-seca-2014

Other series, like NASCAR sometimes share TV revenue with the tracks but I don't believe that is the model for MotoGP or any form of motorcycle racing.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:26 PM   #4682
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I think as a practical matter, Laguna wouldn't likely draw many more fans if they brought over the junior classes. If the fee was less with just Motogp, maybe SCRAMP just said no in the interest of preserving their economics. We don't know what the TV revenue is and who gets it. Seems to me DORNA produces their own TV.

We also don't know if SCRAMP was losing money, which I would guess they were. They probably thought there was commercial benefit to the community but perhaps paying up for the junior classes was too much to consider.

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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
I'm just a little confused about yooperbikemike's statement that Laguna wasn't a money maker for Dorna. I could suppose that by not bringing Moto2 and Moto3 that Laguna paid a smaller fee. I was also under the impression that Dorna wouldn't allow Moto2 and Moto3 at Laguna because the garages were inadequate. If Dorna is requiring SCRAMP to run Moto2 and Moto3 and have the garages to support it then I can see where SCRAMP would want to cancel next year. I suppose they'd need to weigh the benefits of building the garages and the potential increased ticket sales against the cost.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:39 PM   #4683
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Interesting posts Pantah. Thanks.

I think Dorna made money from Laguna. I think they wanted to make more. The Monterey Herald article mentions the $800,000 increase in sanction fees (Dorna's fee) but doesn't specify if that figure represents the same MotoGP pacakage or the addition of Moto2/Moto3 (unless I'm reading it wrong). It seems like Dorna is making definitely making money off the event.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:15 PM   #4684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
But Laguna needs to step up if they want to put on the big show: real facilities for a world class event and with all the classes.

Personally, I think COTA is a tough to look at circuit; a contrived cookie cutter F1 circuit. I would much rather view racing at/from Laguna.
Agree on laguna, the facilities are kind of crap and the track--a total mind fuck, mind--is a bit short. Plus, while the surrounding area makes it a decent destination, it's a bit out of the way. The downfall of course is available money.

I'm okay with Cota, in so far as it gives the US a true world class venue on par with the other mega 2/4 wheel GP tracks. It does seem a bit devoid of character, but i guess you gotta take the good with the bad. I can't help but think of the last scene in Casino where they're demolishing all the old joints and putting billion dollar resorts--if that movie was about racetracks, COTA would be the new place.

Indy, on the other hand, is an embarrassment.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:08 PM   #4685
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According to sources Laguna can only handle about 50,000 spectators per day the 150,000 figures are for the three days i was there in 05 and 06 and it was maxed in 05 and the figures were about 50,000 on Sun. 06 with the heat I don't remember the figures but they said it was less but seemed more with the lack of water for the people.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:34 PM   #4686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rollinrob View Post
You want to see a crap track go to Sears Point in Sonoma, no shade and the workers there are like Nazis, get your shit searched everyware you go. Can't bring this, can't bring that.

Laguna Seca is really close to the Bay Area and not too far from Southern California, so lots of people to draw from. Laguna Seca needs more support from the local folks and there's lots of them who don't care if a track is there or not.

After this weekends poor turn out I really hope WSB returns next year.
It's not a crap track. The fellow who posted that hasn't been to many race tracks. He's a fool because he has no knowledge, but nobody cares. Laguna is very dangerous, even with the new runnoff and surfaces. Lots of riders like that angle to the race. Big Balls and all that. It is part of intimidation. Such a great venue. It is short, but long enough with the infield. Still hero fast, though.

In my argument, Laguna doesn't really even lack garages. The lower classes should have enough kit to make their own, just like the AMA boys do. This isn't about garages. It's about money for Dorna. Fees.

There are special places for road racing. They are typically very old and have a special attraction. Laguna Seca is one of those places. Probably the only one left in the USA for motorcycles. I doubt any in the world beat out Laguna for photography of the fight for the win.

They'll be back. Rossi and Marquez took care of that. The two greatest moments on motorcycle road racing happened at the cork screw. 2008 and 2013.

Makes for our Lore
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:28 PM   #4687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
. The two greatest moments on motorcycle road racing happened at the cork screw. 2008 and 2013.


Do you really think making passes in the cork screw gives the rest of the world as much of a boner as it does for you?
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:34 PM   #4688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer View Post

Do you really think making passes in the cork screw gives the rest of the world as much of a boner as it does for you?

Ask the riders. They all acknowledge the limitations (short, runoff etc), but also enjoy the iconic venue. I believe they would vote to return.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:39 PM   #4689
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Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
Ask the riders. They all acknowledge the limitations (short, runoff etc), but also enjoy the iconic venue. I believe they would vote to return.
I am referring to those passes being two of the greatest moments in motorcycle racing history. Rossi copied Zanardi and MM copied Rossi. FWIW, I would like to see motogp back as well.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:47 PM   #4690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
I think he was starting to get the hang of his R1. He'll not be heard from again in Moto2. I think Cameron Beaubier will be awesome on that R1, but he'd probably excel in Moto2 as well. So who takes over his R6 seat? I like Jake Lewis and JD Beach. They both have been pretty competitive with the Graves bikes. Gerloff will be a lot faster next season, so one of those guys needs a better motorcycle.
Gerloff is fast. Lewis has shown some brilliant riding this year. JD has a great attitude and can race anything fast.

I would like to see Jake Lewis on a top level machine. Just watching him squeeze that tall frame under the windscreen is fun. How tall is he now 6'6'?
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:52 PM   #4691
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Jus like everything these daze it ALL about the MONEY. I read a while back the main obstacle at Laguna was the high fee for the three disciplines to race.laguna could not come up with that kinda cash...ya know...it's sorta like Bernie.E getting what...25 million for putti non a race at COTA..all about the money...
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:42 AM   #4692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azkiwi View Post
Ask the riders. They all acknowledge the limitations (short, runoff etc), but also enjoy the iconic venue. I believe they would vote to return.
They would vote for a lotof tracks to return. They are only seeing the racing aspect, unfortnately the business side is equally important to keep the sport alive. Let's bring back Spa-Francorchamps while we are at it...
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:03 AM   #4693
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2014 MotoGP Provisional Calendar

23 March Qatar* Doha/Losail
13 April Americas Austin
27 April Argentina Termas de Rio Hondo
04 May Spain(STC) Jerez de la Frontera
18 May France Le Mans
1 June Italy Mugello
15 June Catalunya Barcelona- Catalunya
28 June Netherlands** TT Assen
13 July Germany Sachsenring
10 August Indianapolis GP Indianapolis
17 August Czech Republic Brno
31 August Great Britain Silverstone
14 September San Marino & Riviera di Rimini Marco Simoncelli Misano
21 September Aragon MotorLand
28 September Brazil(STH) Brasilia
12 October Malaysia Sepang
19 October Japan Motegi
26 October Australia Phillip Island
09 November Valencia Ricardo Tormo-Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
STC (Subject to the Contract)
STH (Subject to the Homologation)
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:13 AM   #4694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooperbikemike View Post
2014 MotoGP Provisional Calendar

23 March Qatar* Doha/Losail
13 April Americas Austin
27 April Argentina Termas de Rio Hondo
04 May Spain(STC) Jerez de la Frontera
18 May France Le Mans
1 June Italy Mugello
15 June Catalunya Barcelona- Catalunya
28 June Netherlands** TT Assen
13 July Germany Sachsenring
10 August Indianapolis GP Indianapolis
17 August Czech Republic Brno
31 August Great Britain Silverstone
14 September San Marino & Riviera di Rimini Marco Simoncelli Misano
21 September Aragon MotorLand
28 September Brazil(STH) Brasilia
12 October Malaysia Sepang
19 October Japan Motegi
26 October Australia Phillip Island
09 November Valencia Ricardo Tormo-Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
STC (Subject to the Contract)
STH (Subject to the Homologation)
Going from Germany to Czecho by way of Indy makes a lot of sense.

ETA: almost everyone is saying that there is very little chance that Brazil will happen in 2014. The circuit will not be ready.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:03 AM   #4695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yooperbikemike View Post
2014 MotoGP Provisional Calendar

23 March Qatar* Doha/Losail
13 April Americas Austin
27 April Argentina Termas de Rio Hondo
04 May Spain(STC) Jerez de la Frontera
18 May France Le Mans
1 June Italy Mugello
15 June Catalunya Barcelona- Catalunya
28 June Netherlands** TT Assen
13 July Germany Sachsenring
10 August Indianapolis GP Indianapolis
17 August Czech Republic Brno
31 August Great Britain Silverstone
14 September San Marino & Riviera di Rimini Marco Simoncelli Misano
21 September Aragon MotorLand
28 September Brazil(STH) Brasilia
12 October Malaysia Sepang
19 October Japan Motegi
26 October Australia Phillip Island
09 November Valencia Ricardo Tormo-Valencia

* Evening Race
** Saturday Race
STC (Subject to the Contract)
STH (Subject to the Homologation)
About bloody time! How's a bloke to plan? Now fo the Supers... Please. .?
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